Guns of August

[bubblehead]

Let us assume the opening moves of the Great War in August 1914 go as planned for the Germans for a few more weeks; i.e., no turn north and east of Paris presenting a flank to be attacked which resulted in stopping the German Army and the formation of the trench line across northern France. So the German Army approaches Paris from the north and east.

What happens now? Do the Germans have sufficient manpower and logistics to attack or invest Paris? Can they lay siege and continue on or will that stop their advance? Does the BEF keep contact with the French forces during the retreat or do they keep one flank on the sea and allow a gap to open between them and the French Army? Do the French fight for Paris or declare it an open city and allow the Germans to enter? Does the French government stay or flee to somewhere else? Does the war continue, or do the French begin to seek an armistice? Will the result be a Sedan-like battle with the French Army abandoning the Maginoit fortresses to mass in the field (and who would win), or would it be the same old war with the trenches further south and west? If so, how long will it last now, and who has the advantage over OTL?

I'm sure we have some writers here who can make Barbara Tuchman proud.

[fhaessig]

Maginot? In 1914?

Is this an ISOT scenario?

[Max Sinister]

A mistake, I guess. The French had neither the Maginot line nor A-L, of course, but some strong fortresses along the border (Verdun and Toul the most important ones).

[bubblehead]

You are right, of course. A mental flatuation of the highest order. None the less, the general question remains; would there be a major set piece battle or a fighting retreat along the whole line? Or will the French be able at some point to stop the Germans and establish a continuous front?

[Tom_B]

The Schlieffen Plan had multiple problems, One thing to remember is it had two objectives:

Greater Objective: Destroy most of the French Army

Lesser Objective: Capture Paris.

A lot of discussion assumes only the second lesser objective.

Logistics was going to put a brake on the German offensive. The German failure to encircle Verdun and Third Army at Revigny is almost as important as the Gap at the Marne but because there were no British soldiers at Revigny gets much less attention.

[bubblehead]

If the Germans did not let the gap develop, inviting an Allied offensive that threatened to split their armies and forcing them to halt and redeploy their forces, how much further could they have gone? What were their logistical capabilities?

How much more successful would the German right wing have to be before the French became worried about a complete envelopment of their forces to the east and felt forced to pull them back to better defensive postions?

[David S Poepoe]

Originally Posted by Tom_B

The Schlieffen Plan had multiple problems, One thing to remember is it had two objectives:

Greater Objective: Destroy most of the French Army

Lesser Objective: Capture Paris.

A lot of discussion assumes only the second lesser objective.

Logistics was going to put a brake on the German offensive. The German failure to encircle Verdun and Third Army at Revigny is almost as important as the Gap at the Marne but because there were no British soldiers at Revigny gets much less attention.

True it had multiple problems, the biggest one being that it didn't really exist in 1914 in any formal plan. It doesn't make any appearance in any official writings until about 1917 when German generals begin using Moltke the Younger as a scapegoat.

Manpower is the other, the Germans don't have the manpower to carry out their invasion of France. The 'Schlieffen Plan' was an exercise that was created - but never tested - by von Schlieffen in order to justify the expansion of the Imperial Army.