A different conquest of mexico?

[Faeelin]

OTL, we had one nation decapitate the leadership of the aztecs and natives, and then utterly destroy their culture. The Spanish imprinted themselves upon all of America from California to Patagonia.

Could we have a TL where the conquest of mexico was done by groups of mercenaries/conquistadores from across Europe, carving out their own states? Like in Outremer?

[Chris]

Well, perhaps Cortes is barly able to leave Cuba and goes with a massive grudge against spanish authority. The Cortos group get to Mexico, have fun taking the place, but lie to the spanish aithorities about how rich the place is, while preparing their own empire. Other menicary groups are invited by cortes to mexico.

At some point, there is a civil war in the independent mexico and the nation splits into different sections. Perhaps Cortes held it together by dint of personallity, but went on a stupid trip and got killed.

Chris

[Fearless Leader]

Or perhaps Cortes is killed/ sacrificed on "La Noche a Tristes" then we have the spanish force become fragmented under a number of different leaders. With each taking a portion of the Anti Aztec Native coalition and carving out their own states...

Although my knowledge of the period is incredibly vague...

[Admiral Matt]

You know...I bet there's a way to get it to happen in an all out, old-school crusade...

But I digress. Sure. I doubt it would even be hard to arrange. The important thing is to keep those Spanish out of it.

Two options I see:

[1] Smarter Spanish Monarchs = Italian Mexico.

Ferdinand gets a slightly better education. He hears what Isabella's talking about doing, and points out that there's no way China's within sailing distance. Isabella drops the whole idea like a hot potato - her power of action is dependent on the perception that she's sensible (read: thinks like a man). Spain turns its violent young men against Morocco.

Columbus keeps looking for royal donors, but fills the time doing more standard work. In 1503 he finally gets enough money from private sources for a couple little ships, and sails west. He lands on Puerto Rico, enslaves the inhabitants, and claims it for...whoever. Genoa, maybe, or Naples if they contributed, or hell, even for the Papacy.

Isabella says, "I told you so," and the Spanish go and claim Hispaniola and Cuba around 1505. The big islands so far have been in a line, so they don't go looking south, and instead turn to the Bahamas and Florida. Just as in OTL, a Spanish priest comes up with the idea of bringing in African slaves to replace the dying Indios. Just as in OTL, this eventually brings in malaria. Spain is fairly loosely involved, though. Let's say they have a civil war - not exactly a stretch.

Columbus has inspired lots of small-scale ventures, especially by Italians, and about half the Lesser Antilles as well as parts of Jamaica have a European captain/warlord ruling over the natives by 1520. A few cede their land to the home countries, but most want to live the dream, and a myriad of principalities pop up.

In 1530 Europeans claim the West Indies, North America from Florida to the Mississippi, and South America from Panama to the Amazon. The whole place is a patchwork - even the big islands are divided between two or more countries. Spain, Portugal, France, England, Scotland, Genoa, Venice, Naples, Pisa, Norway, and Denmark all have theoretical sovereignty over one corner or another. Tripoli and Algiers aren't interested in officially holding anything, since the Christians would just take it away.

It has been a great ride for Europe's megalomaniacs and sociopaths, but as bigger nations get involved and the native-supply starts to run out, things have to change. More and more like-minded young men are showing up, but most of the natives are dead, and only established men can afford African slaves. Independent ports are losing ground to

Meanwhile, enthusiasm for American colonies by the large European powers is almost non-existent. Up to this time they've been more trouble then they are worth. Most of the natives are dead or have fled inland, malaria is all over the place, and importing Africans hasn't worked as well as was expected. Making matters worse are the swarms of insufferable Italian warlords populating the place, whose main source of income seems to be piracy. It's gotten to the point that more ships in the Caribbean are piloted by pirates than not. And since most of the white people are only there for the chance at power, whenever the Powers try to annex a town all the inhabitants just move somewhere else.

That's where things stand when a ship hits the Yucatan on the way back from exploring the Texas coast. They find cities there, filled with people and overflowing with gold.

It takes over a year for reliable information to get to European governments, and most of another before any decide to make a large scale expedition. The first such expedition sets out about six months after that.

It takes about a month and a half for exaggerated stories to reach most of the Caribbean. Within a period of a few months, the Caribbean is emptied of about 2/3 of its white population. Guess where they went.

That went a lot longer than I had planned. I think I'll call it a night. What do you think?

[cow defender]

i'd like to read a tl on that.

[MerryPrankster]

Admiral Matt,

Straha posited a similar scenario some time ago. Columbus never sails and the New World ends up being divided into dozens of small empires ruled by European warlords and the like. Spain conquers much of North Africa and Italy instead (hey, the soldiers left unemployed by the Reconquista need SOMETHING to do).

I filed the basic idea away in my list of story ideas...that could provide the background for some interesting ATL proxy wars in the Caribbean.

[wkwillis]

One of the reasons that Spain kept going bankrupt was their unhealthy fixation on conquest, loot, rape, arson, enslavement, etc. So when Columbus makes it over in 1492 and back in 1493, the English come over in 1494, miss the Caribbean islands completely and sail on till Mexico, which is where they find the gold and way too many natives to conquer. So they sell all their cannon, gunpower, balls, swords, mirrors, nails, etc, and go home with lots of seeds, gold, and silver.
Next year, after the Bruges fairs, there are three hundred ships in the Americas, all after a score like that....