AHC: Help Create my alternate WW1 alliances

[SPJ]

Recently I've intrigued myself with the concept of having an alternate WW1 in which the major super powers are allied with eachother as follows

-Britian, Germany, Italy
-France, Russia, USA

Help me create a series of events that lead to these alliances and them waring with eachother. Not necesarily in that order.

I've left out other countries in my from these alliances so that other posters may suggest which way they would fall in this alliance set up.

Also I will allow pre-1900 PODs even though this is the post-1900 board. I posted it hear b/c I figured it would get more views form people that could help me.

[d32123]

Having Britain support Germany in WW1 with a post 1900 PoD is ASB.

[SPJ]

Originally Posted by d32123

Having Britain support Germany in WW1 with a post 1900 PoD is ASB.

Forgive me I should have explained my request more thoroughly. Look above I've edited it.

[Zuvarq]

Originally Posted by d32123

Having Britain support Germany in WW1 with a post 1900 PoD is ASB.

Not necessarily. What if France goes communist? Or Britain and Germany both go communist?

[anarchjoe]

Perhaps France could beat Prussia but due to it acting overbearing Bismark manages to unite Germany Britain then freaks out about France being overly strong putting Austria Hungary off another war. As for the others they're doable. U.S vs Britain, either trent affair gone wrong or ends up later in the war which seems less likely. Though I'm not sure how you keep Austria Hungary out

[d32123]

Originally Posted by Zuvarq

Not necessarily. What if France goes communist? Or Britain and Germany both go communist?

Having similar ideologies does not make different peoples blood brothers, especially back in those days, nor would a dramatic ideological shift break alliances that easily. Britain supported France over Germany for reasons that are pretty hard to butterfly without a far back PoD, and I don't think any of those nations going communist is going to change anything.

[Tocomocho]

1) No Spanish-American War. This leaves the USA still seeking for some target where to flex its muscles and demand its place in the world.

2) A deeper Fachoda crisis damages Franco-British relations enough to prevent the Entente Cordiale.

3) A (maybe slightly earlier) Russo-Japanese War drags France and Britain in and against each other. Germany and Italy oportunistically support Britain and some weird thing happens that makes the Ottomans jump in as well. The USA decides to flex its muscles and demand its place in the world by invading Canada (something that was considered IOTL, perhaps foolishly, as late as the 1890s). Bottom line: World War before 1910.

[Flying Dutchman]

I think an Anglo-German alliance could have been possible is Wilhelm II and his government didn't do just about everything they could to push Britain and France in eachothers arms. Relations between France and Britain had been cold since Fashoda and 500+ years of animosity, while France's ally Russia and Britain where engaged in the 'Great Game' in central Asia.

Stop Wilhelms excesses (no Algeciras, a smaller fleet buildup) and Britain might just have looked for Germany as a potential continental ally.

Having the USA joining the French alliance would be quite difficult. Only thing I can think of is that Britain and Germany start a full blockade of continental Europe, or start commandeering US ships. Still, given the horrific state of the US standing army and a likely British presence in Canada, I doubt the US would jump into a war unprepared.

[Awilla the Hun]

Originally Posted by Zuvarq

Not necessarily. What if France goes communist? Or Britain and Germany both go communist?

No one's going communist without the massive disruption of the Great War. And it was not as ideological age as it was post war.

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by SPJ

Recently I've intrigued myself with the concept of having an alternate WW1 in which the major super powers are allied with eachother as follows

-Britian, Germany, Italy, Ottoman Empire
-France, Russia, USA

Help me create a series of events that lead to these alliances and them waring with eachother. Not necesarily in that order.

Also I will allow pre-1900 PODs even though this is the post-1900 board. I posted it hear b/c I figured it would get more views form people that could help me.

You might want a brief UK/Germany v. USA war/dispute. Something like these two intervening to make the USA give Spain back PR and maybe Cuba. Or a Venezuela crisis where the UK and Germany team up on the USA. This gets the USA hostile to the UK/Germany, the USA to seek allies, and improve the UK Germany relationship.

Now what happened to Austria-Hungary?

[SPJ]

Originally Posted by BlondieBC

You might want a brief UK/Germany v. USA war/dispute. Something like these two intervening to make the USA give Spain back PR and maybe Cuba. Or a Venezuela crisis where the UK and Germany team up on the USA. This gets the USA hostile to the UK/Germany, the USA to seek allies, and improve the UK Germany relationship.

Now what happened to Austria-Hungary?

Which Venezuela crisis did you have in mind? Also I mentioned earlier that I left out other countries in my OP so that other posters could suggest which way they would fall in this alliance set up.

Also if I left out the Ottomans from this initial set up which way would they more likely fall? Would they prefer to join the CP or Allies?

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by SPJ

Which Venezuela crisis did you have in mind? Also I mentioned earlier that I left out other countries in my OP so that other posters could suggest which way they would fall in this alliance set up.

Also if I left out the Ottomans from this initial set up which way would they more likely fall? Would they prefer to join the CP or Allies?

I don't have the date, but I think it was TR or Taft. Germany really wanted to take some islands for debt the Venezuelans owed, and make it a navy base. Have the UK support the Germans in exchange for something the UK wants such as German fleet limited to 50% of UK fleet combined with a publicly humiliated USA president, and you have most of the alliance work done. USA had traditionally good relations with France and Russia, so it is a nice fit.

You will have to move around some of the lesser powers if you want a long war, but that is also doable. A-H may move to the Russian side, or neutral,or maybe they are having internal crisis, or maybe it splits into two countries. A-H falling apart makes a nice way to start the war.

Look Venezuela history, and it should show up pretty easy.

[Easterling]

Originally Posted by BlondieBC

A-H may move to the Russian side, or neutral,or maybe they are having internal crisis, or maybe it splits into two countries. A-H falling apart makes a nice way to start the war.

About AH, I can see the following (admittedly contrived) back story: the Hapsburgs try something like the Bosnian annexation of OTL but it blows up in their face very badly. Russia and Turkey gang up on AH and dismantle it. The Germans want to help AH but due to some improbably bad diplomacy they can't get any other great power to support them. Later, the British feel bad about allowing the collapse of AH because it disrupted the balance of power, so they side with Germany and both of them side with Turkey against Russia which is seen as the bigger threat, and this sets the stage for the alternate ww1.

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by Easterling

About AH, I can see the following (admittedly contrived) back story: the Hapsburgs try something like the Bosnian annexation of OTL but it blows up in their face very badly. Russia and Turkey gang up on AH and dismantle it. The Germans want to help AH but due to some improbably bad diplomacy they can't get any other great power to support them. Later, the British feel bad about allowing the collapse of AH because it disrupted the balance of power, so they side with Germany and both of them side with Turkey against Russia which is seen as the bigger threat, and this sets the stage for the alternate ww1.

With Willie, improbably bad diplomacy is the exception not the rule. And over a limited issue like Bosnia, I could see Italy, Ottomans and Russia coming to an agreement.

The British would switch for a balance of power issue, if Russia looked too strong. Lets say Russia got a Med port in Saloniki as reward.

[Rich Rostrom]

Originally Posted by SPJ

Recently I've intrigued myself with the concept of having an alternate WW1 in which the major super powers are allied with eachother as follows

-Britian, Germany, Italy, Ottoman Empire
-France, Russia, USA

What happened to Austria-Hungary? Leaving A-H out is like Hamlet without the Prince. Also Japan, which is a Great Power.

Help me create a series of events that lead to these alliances and them waring with each other. Not necesarily in that order.

What about this lineup?

-Britain, Germany, Italy, Ottoman Empire, Japan

vs

-France, Russia, USA, Austria-Hungary

I could envision the first group as the ruthless-imperialist powers.

Britain savagely represses Ireland, alienating the US, and is aggressive in Latin America, as well. (OTL Venezuela crisis, etc.)

Germany is OTL Germany.

Italy veers Fascist and is bloody-handed in Africa.

Japan anticipates the 1920s-1930s, seizes bits of China, etc, and is armed by Britain as OTL.

Turkey - butchers Slavs in the Balkans and Armenians in the Caucasus, propped up by Germany and the UK.

All these states are authoritarian and ostentatiously monarchist.


On the other side:

France is colonialist - but republican, and relatively egalitarian toward the "natives" - e.g. colonial peoples electing members to the Chamber of Deputies.

Russia - undergoes a revolution in 1906 or so - the ultra-reactionary "camarillla" stages the assassination of the insufficiently compliant Tsar, and get caught. With the throne vacant, liberal elements establish a republic. Traditional Russian-American friendship is cemented.

The US is republican, anti-colonialist (Open Door and Good Neighbor). At odds with Japan in the Pacific, anglophobic (Ireland!), francophilic.

Austria-Hungary - old Franz Joseph dies and Franz Ferdinand establishes a Triune Monarchy with proper representation for Slavic elements, and social-democratic government. (This is perhaps the most ASB, as A-H had massively dysfunctional politics.) Despite remaining a monarchy, A-H aligns with France/Russia/US because it has no colonies.

[SPJ]

Originally Posted by Rich Rostrom

What happened to Austria-Hungary? Leaving A-H out is like Hamlet without the Prince. Also Japan, which is a Great Power.

I've answered that question before in other posts but I've edited my OP to include the answer.