Suicide bombers as resistance tactic in WW2

[AdA]

Suicide bombers are an effective tool of terror organisations since Hizbollah popularised them in Lebanon in the 80s. Given the odds facing WW2 resistance fighters in Nazi occupied countries, how effective would the use of suicide bombers have been? I'm talking of the whole range, from walk ins with explosive vests blowing themselves in a german filled restaurant in Prague to explosive loaded trucks being driven against german held buildings in Paris. What would be the effect on german morale? Would the allies be willing to support such actions (airdroping suicide vests for example) and would some countries be more willing to use this technique than others?
I'm not trying to validate suicide bombers in any way, just wondering about the implications of it's general use in occupied Europe.

[Super Missile]

What you need to remember, is that the Germans would retaliate immediately. I believe the rule was 1 German killed = 10 French/Belgian/Dutch killed. That will surely be taken into consideration.

[AdA]

Originally Posted by Super Missile

What you need to remember, is that the Germans would retaliate immediately. I believe the rule was 1 German killed = 10 French/Belgian/Dutch killed. That will surely be taken into consideration.

The resistance movement did kill Germans, just not very efficiently. Suicide bombing would probably lead to more german deaths for each dead resistance fighter than conventional guerrilla tactics. Reprisal killings are only effective up to a point. If the resistance keeps up the fighting reprisals will lead to a mass insurrection, and the Germans didn't have the manpower to face one. I was thinking more of Poland and occupied Russia, along with Yuguslavia, Czechoslovakia, etc with maybe the French joining in later and not very enthusiastically. The Italians in the Balkans would make prime targets, and I wonder what they be the impact of an Albanian old lady walking into an Italian barracks to d laundry and blowing herself up along with a few dozen soldiers...

[Danth]

Most resistance fighters in ww2 knew that on day they would be free while in lebanon they didn't know that and thought hell if this is the end I might as well take a few of them with me

[AdA]

Originally Posted by Danth

Most resistance fighters in ww2 knew that on day they would be free while in lebanon they didn't know that and thought hell if this is the end I might as well take a few of them with me

The people who fight for Hizbollah think they are free now and don't care much what we think of their lifestyle. Polish freedom fighters of WW2 had to wait until 1989 to feel that way...
fighting dirty rather than being liberated means you can choose the terms of your liberation.

[The Red]

Originally Posted by AdA

Suicide bombers are an effective tool of terror organisations since Hizbollah popularised them in Lebanon in the 80s.

The partisans in occupied Europe were far more successful than Hizbollah has ever been.

[Kome]

Originally Posted by The Red

The partisans in occupied Europe were far more successful than Hizbollah has ever been.

Well the Partisans in the east really pull the collective average up. And then you have the Dutch, who's only major accomplishment was killing a 70 year old Dutch colonel.

[The Red]

Originally Posted by Kome

Well the Partisans in the east really pull the collective average up. And then you have the Dutch, who's only major accomplishment was killing a 70 year old Dutch colonel.

And hiding hundreds of thousands of people from Nazi oppression, and launching the first general strike against the Nazis in occupied Europe. Not too bad when you consider the scale of collaboration in the Netherlands and the initially light German occupation of 'fellow aryans'.

[AdA]

Originally Posted by The Red

The partisans in occupied Europe were far more successful than Hizbollah has ever been.

Who do you think kicked Israel out of Lebanon? The Syrians? The UN? Apart from, maybe, the Yugoslavs, Hizbollah was more successful than any WW2 resistance movement.

[The Red]

Originally Posted by AdA

Who do you think kicked Israel out of Lebanon? The Syrians? The UN?

The Knesset.

Originally Posted by AdA

Hizbollah was more successful than any WW2 resistance movement.

The Warsaw Uprising alone, in the space of a few months, killed far more Germans then Hezbollah have Israelis in 30 years.

[Snake Featherston]

Originally Posted by AdA

Kamikaze are just missiles after the initial shock. For an occupying force, suicide bombers are your worst nightmare. After a while, everybody can be a walking landmine, and the stress level piles up. The Germans had it too easy in westhern Europe. If the guy next to you on that French cafe might be wearing an explosive vest your croissant will taste a lot less delightful...

They had it easy because relative to their savage behavior in the East they were generally easy. It's no coincidence that France started smoldering when the Nazis began seeking for Westarbeiters the way they'd been doing with Ostarbeiters.

Originally Posted by AdA

Who do you think kicked Israel out of Lebanon? The Syrians? The UN? Apart from, maybe, the Yugoslavs, Hizbollah was more successful than any WW2 resistance movement.

On the contrary, the Soviet partisan movements were masterful auxiliaries to regular armies, which is exactly what irregular warfare is meant to do. It's not meant as a warfighting tool in its own right, it's meant to bolster the combat power of a regular, conventional military.

[AdA]

Originally Posted by Snake Featherston

They had it easy because relative to their savage behavior in the East they were generally easy. It's no coincidence that France started smoldering when the Nazis began seeking for Westarbeiters the way they'd been doing with Ostarbeiters.



On the contrary, the Soviet partisan movements were masterful auxiliaries to regular armies, which is exactly what irregular warfare is meant to do. It's not meant as a warfighting tool in its own right, it's meant to bolster the combat power of a regular, conventional military.

They were. But still had to be liberated by the Red Army. Hizbolah won without having to wait for a Syrian Army to "liberate" Lebanon.

[AdA]

Originally Posted by The Red

The Knesset.



The Warsaw Uprising alone, in the space of a few months, killed far more Germans then Hezbollah have Israelis in 30 years.

Israelis give up easily, is that what you're trying to say?

[The Red]

Originally Posted by AdA

Israelis give up easily, is that what you're trying to say?

Nope, partisans in WW2 were better at killing their enemies.

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by AdA

Who do you think kicked Israel out of Lebanon? The Syrians? The UN? Apart from, maybe, the Yugoslavs, Hizbollah was more successful than any WW2 resistance movement.

They never actually kicked Israel out. The IDF was never physically pushed back. In the final hours of the war, it actually advanced forward. Neither side really inflicted a major defeat on the other, but Hezbollah lost ground and suffered far heavier casualties.

I agree, however, that Hezbollah is a pretty poor comparison to WWII partisans. It is not some ragtag guerrilla underground guerrilla group, it is practically a dug-in professional army, well-organized and trained, and it has military capabilities that exceed those of some states.

[AdA]

Originally Posted by Peter Parker

They never actually kicked Israel out. The IDF was never physically pushed back. In the final hours of the war, it actually advanced forward. Neither side really inflicted a major defeat on the other, but Hezbollah lost ground and suffered far heavier casualties.

I agree, however, that Hezbollah is a pretty poor comparison to WWII partisans. It is not some ragtag guerrilla underground guerrilla group, it is practically a dug-in professional army, well-organized and trained, and it has military capabilities that exceed those of some states.

I was talking about getting Israel out of Lebanon in the 80/90s, not the 2006 war. They were past the suicide bomber phase by then.

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by AdA

I was talking about getting Israel out of Lebanon in the 80/90s, not the 2006 war. They were past the suicide bomber phase by then.

The 1980s were they heyday of their suicide bomber activity. Their worst suicide bombing came in 1983. And even then, they never physically pushed the IDF out.

[Snake Featherston]

Japan used them in WWII, it didn't work as I remember it very well. I mean it horrified the USA, yes, but that just led to the atomic bombings.

[King Thomas]

It could easily discredit the resistance movement.

[Kome]

Originally Posted by King Thomas

It could easily discredit the resistance movement.

To who? The populace? Doubt it, these are the Nazis after all. Foreign support? Most of the resistance movements were communists, and partisan wars are hardly clean. Hell normal war isnt clean ether. If being communist didnt stop the Allies from giving them support than a little thing like this isnt.