AHC: Hellenized Ottomans

[VictorLaszlo]

Was there a possibility that, over a couple of generations, the Ottoman invaders could have been hellenized after conquering the Byzentine Empire, i.e. been assimilated into the local (greek) culture just like the Normans were in France or the Visigoths in Spain?

[David S Poepoe]

Originally Posted by VictorLaszlo

Was there a possibility that, over a couple of generations, the Ottoman invaders could have been hellenized after conquering the Byzentine Empire, i.e. been assimilated into the local (greek) culture just like the Normans were in France or the Visigoths in Spain?

But they remain Muslim right?

[el t]

I doubt that they could be completely Hellenized. The religious difference. the fact that the Greek population had already mainly vanished or converted to Islam in western Asia Minor.

[TurkishCapybara]

Originally Posted by VictorLaszlo

Was there a possibility that, over a couple of generations, the Ottoman invaders could have been hellenized after conquering the Byzentine Empire, i.e. been assimilated into the local (greek) culture just like the Normans were in France or the Visigoths in Spain?

The Visigoths and Normans were small populations moving to large, faraway lands.

The Ottoman Homeland is really close to Greece, and there is a large population of Turks in Anatolia.

[King Gorilla]

How about Turkish gets codified for bureaucratic use in a Greek alphabet?

[Faeelin]

It might help if there was more to Byzantine culture when the Turks took over. A state which emerged in the 11th century after conquering the Byzantine Empire would look much more Greek, I imagine.

[Mirza Khan]

Originally Posted by VictorLaszlo

Was there a possibility that, over a couple of generations, the Ottoman invaders could have been hellenized after conquering the Byzentine Empire, i.e. been assimilated into the local (greek) culture just like the Normans were in France or the Visigoths in Spain?

You have to have them convert to Greek Orthodoxy. If they don't, they're very unlikely to pick up any more Byzantine culture than OTL, but if they do convert, then its very likely that they'll assimilate into Byzantine culture so completely that they'll just be considered another "Turkish" Byzantine dynasty.

If you believe Ottoman oral traditions, their royal line didn't convert to Islam until after they arrived in Anatolia, so them picking Orthodoxy isn't totally unimaginable.

[Velasco]

Well, ethnically they were assimiliated quite easily - the Sultans had mere drops of Turkish blood and plenty of European/Balkan/Greek/Circassian etc ancestry.

Maybe if the son of one of the Byzantine princesses ascended the throne? What about the Sultan Yahya?

[TurkishCapybara]

Originally Posted by Velasco

Maybe if the son of one of the Byzantine princesses ascended the throne? What about the Sultan Yahya?

There were a ton of Byzantine and Slavic Princesses in the Ottoman Family Tree already. Why would it matter?

[Velasco]

Originally Posted by TurkishCapybara

There were a ton of Byzantine and Slavic Princesses in the Ottoman Family Tree already. Why would it matter?

It's one thing for those girls to be in the harem. Another for their son to become Sultan with them as Sultana-Regent type person.

[Hrvatskiwi]

Originally Posted by Velasco

It's one thing for those girls to be in the harem. Another for their son to become Sultan with them as Sultana-Regent type person.

Actually, that DID happen. IIRC correctly, Suleiman the Magnificent's (or maybe it was Mehmet the Conqueror) mother was Serbian. And she was her husband's favourite wife. And at one point, the mother (who was either Greek or Serb) pulled the strings in the empire until the Sultan got a bit more mature.

[The Ubbergeek]

ASB, but if you find a way to convert BYZANCE first, maybe...

[birdboy2000]

The interregnum after Bayezid's death leads to a lasting division of the empire between the Balkans and Anatolia. The Balkan half, lacking much in the way of Turks at this point, becomes Hellenized.

[PhilippeO]

It's one thing for those girls to be in the harem. Another for their son to become Sultan with them as Sultana-Regent type person.

If on its early history, Ottoman Sultan who marry byzantine princess make tradition some women become primary wives and only son of primary wives could succeed to throne, it would be easier to Hellenize Ottoman. Several High-Ranking Byzantine Family could survive as Fujiwara-like wives provider and influence Sultan.

[Elfwine]

Originally Posted by PhilippeO

If on its early history, Ottoman Sultan who marry byzantine princess make tradition some women become primary wives and only son of primary wives could succeed to throne, it would be easier to Hellenize Ottoman. Several High-Ranking Byzantine Family could survive as Fujiwara-like wives provider and influence Sultan.

And how exactly are you going to make it so that only sons of primary wives succeed?

Not to mention, why would that influence the Sultan to be Byzantinized?

[MerryPrankster]

Not sure how much influence the Ottoman princes' mothers even had on their upbringing. The mother of one Ottoman sultan asked for Catholic confession before she died (the one who was a French girl kidnapped by the Barbary Pirates), but the son was still a Muslim.

Furthermore, I think Abdul said that an Ottoman prince who was a Christian wouldn't live very long--I think his scenario was they'd be sent somewhere ostensibly for health grounds and then die.