Why must France alway die in Rhoman Survival TLs?

[General_Finley]

So I've noticed a trend that in TL's revolving around the survival of the Rhomanian Empire, no mater the PoD, France tends to get split between Germany and England. Why is this?

[Beedok]

People hate France?

[Iori]

Because for a good bit of History France was split between various polities, foreign and domestic.

[Enigmajones]

Honest to god I've never read a Byzantine survives TL, mostly because Im a Latin Empire Fan boy. But If I had to guess, definitely the option that People hate France.

[Darth_Kiryan]

Originally Posted by Enigmajones

Honest to god I've never read a Byzantine survives TL, mostly because Im a Latin Empire Fan boy. But If I had to guess, definitely the option that People hate France.

Issacs Empire?

[hairysamarian]

It's just American writers getting even with all those rude French waiters. When they stop trying to convince us that snails are really food and that people really eat them, we'll stop trying to erase them from history.

[Enigmajones]

Originally Posted by Adûnakhôr

Issacs Empire?

Never read it. Tried to, but Im not a big enough fan of the Byzantines to really be drawn into it.

[The Ubbergeek]

I kinda agree, albeit I wonder if a Kingdom could survive at least stronger than the sore state of medieval royal domains...

[CandyDragon]

Because dem Franks be... CRAZY!


Honestly, idk. Authors in favor of Byzantium hate the French? As a trend, I think more British althistorians write Byzantine survival Tls, so that may have something to do with it.

[eliphas8]

Its probably just because "England wins the 100 year war" is one of those stereotypical but still pretty good alt-history ideas and thus they put it in a lot when detailing the rest of the world.

[Condottiere]

I've always thought of it simply being a matter of making the geopolitical situation of the TL dynamic and therefore more interesting. Of course rather than a TL where there are only slight variations from OTL and therefore to the eyes of the author boring when compared to the ability to cut it up into multiple chunks. Then again, French unity behind a single centralized government based in Paris without dire circumstances like the 100 Years War to unite everyone is a very recent development in terms of modern history. Hell, it took several civil wars and centuries for the Bourbons to be able to legitimately say France was ruled under an absolute monarchy.

Though to be honest, there is a certain bias those who write predominantly in the English language have against the French ingrained in a very long history of bad blood between England and France. That's recently changed of course in the 20th century, but it is hard to let go of one of the biggest rivalries in history.

[LSCatilina]

Originally Posted by Iori

Because for a good bit of History France was split between various polities, foreign and domestic.

That's it : because many peoples, including history teachers are conviced this passage is 100% true, Timelines writers try to make something accurate and respect this.

Of course, this kinf of vision doesn't explain at all why the royal desmene eventually became the major power in the kingdom or why France was united.

In fact, the feudal desunion is less "black&white" than Germany or Italy before XIX :
-the king have an arbitrage authority in all his kingdom (and could such place his allies in good places, as managing to make an army to defend him from his vassals even if their interests were not to do such)
- his desmene was among the richer of the north (the picture of a little land, enough to allow the king to not starve is capetian medieval propaganda : "do not fear me, i'm a tiny noble")
-and of course he had the possibility to use at maximum the feudal rules. As the supreme liege, he could change it at the right times (inheritence of women is a good exemple) and to gain to them great feudal lands because of family policy. Burgundy was TWICE gained such and given to brothers of the king.

So, yes, if we believe the common cliché, France have better odds to be divided entierly or between England and Germany.
Now, if we see what feudal contract and "politics" were, we have more odds to see it "desunited" as HRE, or at least partially united in TLs

[kasumigenx]

Originally Posted by General_Finley

So I've noticed a trend that in TL's revolving around the survival of the Rhomanian Empire, no mater the PoD, France tends to get split between Germany and England. Why is this?

I think they like the Plantagenets to succeed but having the Plantagenets succeed will Frenchify England for good.