Peshawar Lancers Redux: The Russian Empire

[Strategos' Risk]

Let's review what we know from the book.

The other man nodded. That was one of the fundamental distinctions of the modern world, the gap between those whose ancestors had come through the great famines by eating men, and those who hadn't. Perhaps it was a trifle hypocritical; taking away other men's food killed them just as much as eating the flesh from their bones directly. A prejudice didn't have to be rational, of course; even today, after a century of recivilizing missions, natives of Britain were looked on a little askance by the descendants of the Exodus.

The Russians were different. Like many of the tribes of Europe, the Muscovite refugees in Central Asia had made virtue of necessity, and developed a religion of abominations that continued cannibalism as ritual long after it ceased to be necessity. De Vascogne supposed that back in the terrible years of universal death it had even seemed reasonable that Satan was loose in a world seized from a defeated God.

But most groups who'd taken that route were bone-through-the-nose savages, beyond the Stone Age only insofar as they pounded pre-Fall metal into crude knives rather than chipping them from flint. Poetic justice, in a way; when men hunted each other to eat for a generation or two, it destroyed even the memory and concept of trust— and mutual trust was what let human beings live at a level beyond skulking miser?'. Perhaps the Russians who'd set up around Samarkand were a special case, because they hadn't eaten each other—they'd survived by culling their Asian subjects, until the great cold relaxed its grip. They still did, for ceremony's sake, and to maintain the terror of their rule.

So yeah, we take away the Black Church, Supreme Autocrat, Serpent Throne, Dreamers, and Peacock Angel and replace it with a hardcore Russian Orthodox Church- as examples, we can look at the Holy Russian Empires of World War Z or of Gurkani Âlam.

Beyond that- what should we keep from the book? What should we change?

[Analytical Engine]

Not moving to Central Asia for a start...

Southwestern Russia would be much better - perhaps it could be described as a reinvigorated Kievan Rus...

[Strategos' Risk]

I declare this project dead.

[MerryPrankster]

Here's an idea:

How about TWO "Russias-in-exile"?

You have a more normal one in Kiev AND some kind of scary cannibal "rogue state" in Central Asia.

OTL saw that lunatic baron during the Russian Civil War, so a state run by maniacs isn't out of the question.

[King Gorilla]

I know there was quite a bit of discussion about Russia on the Europe thread of this. I think most people focused on the idea of a surviving Russia being based around the black sea basin where its slightly warmer, and a rebuilt city of Constantinople (considering it got destroyed by a meteor when the Russian army was at war with the ottomans and a few days march away from it)

[Ian Takaoka]

You do realize that the Russian remnant went into Afghanistan? Could they have gotten into the same trouble everyone does trying to invade Afghanistan?

And a more outlandish idea...

Could a Marxist state ever have developed in the Post-Fall era in Russia?

[Ian Takaoka]

Disregard my previous statement. I fail at geography, so I accidentally placed Samarkand in Afghanistan. I don't think anyone has Afghanistan at this point, do they? And does the Post-Fall Russia have any industrial capability? If not, that would eliminate the possibility of a Marxist state.

So, I guess my question is... exactly what is Russia right now in TPL?

[Strategos' Risk]

Originally Posted by chris N

Judging from the map showing the impact areas I would say that the impact would have set off earthquakes in a lot of Europe. It is possible that the Channel might very well have poured into France. In Russia the Imct would have leveled a lot of ground and created a huge crater and it would have also cause eath quake vibrations to hit St Petersburg, Helsinki and Moscow.

It would seem more logical for the Russians to relocate to the southern Ukraine and perhaps Tsargrad would become the new Imperial capital.

Originally Posted by King Gorilla

I'd imagine that with the nuclear winter Russia would prefer a more southerly capital, I'm thinking either Sevastopol or Rostov as Tsargrad is incredibly cold even in a good year.

Originally Posted by chris N

Yes, I would agree with your point the Black Sea Port would make a better capital with a much milder winter.

Originally Posted by Shadow Knight

I would have assumed earthquakes, forest fires, etc. would all have been part of the package deal here.

On my rough map I did I had them move into the Ukraine, and I'd imagine the Crimea and the Caucuses would be prime spots too. (And if really desperate or needing to expand into Central Asia).

As for a capital I was thinking Rostov, Sevastopol, Odessa, or if the Czars really wanted build a new one somewhere on the Black Sea coast.

Here is the Russian debate.

[Strategos' Risk]

Originally Posted by Slacker

I'm not so sure that Russia's going to emerge as strong in this alt-PL as some people are discussing. They're one of the few powers to actually get hit with a bolide, which would cause pretty extensive damage to the more densely populated parts of the country and decapitate the government. While thinning the population makes feeding the people easier, certainly, losing the majority of the government isn't going to make relocation simple. It worked in the original PLverse because they were bloodthirsty cannibalistic bastards. They're not in this reboot, so they aren't going to have as much success simply because they're not as brutal. They also didn't have as much organized opposition in Central Asia as they do in European Russia, especially with a Polish/Ukrainian revolt.

Along those lines, I'd imagine the Poles would be among the first to try and recolonize northern Europe, with the aim of getting Poland back before the Germans could overrun it. I see the Russians here being more interested in Central Asia, simply because there's no real competitors. It may evolve that the Russians especially feel it's better to have a decently strong buffer state between them and this German Rome Reborn, and probably help them along in reoccupying, say, Krakow and Warsaw. Especially if the Germans are involved in another conflict, in say, Northern Italy.

Could there be two Russias? One bloodthirsty and ruthless one based in Central Asia (not Satanist though), and a slightly milder one in western Europe. Both or at least the Central Asian one is fanatically Eastern Orthodox.

[Shadow Knight]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

Could there be two Russias? One bloodthirsty and ruthless one based in Central Asia (not Satanist though), and a slightly milder one in western Europe. Both or at least the Central Asian one is fanatically Eastern Orthodox.

You could end up having some situation where there is a split in the leadership. If there was a case where two people claimed to be Tsar I suppose you might have a split of some kind. Unfortunately I don't know much about Russia at this point in history.

[King Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

Could there be two Russias? One bloodthirsty and ruthless one based in Central Asia (not Satanist though), and a slightly milder one in western Europe. Both or at least the Central Asian one is fanatically Eastern Orthodox.

If one formed I wouldn't imagine it being terribly long lived. The region was rather lacking in both road and rail, which would greatly impede the settlement of all important refugees. The conquest of Khiva was still recent, and the Russians hadn't finished conquering either Tajikistan or Turkmenistan. The area will still get lethally cold, with all the attendant crop failures. Whats more an unruly population is very likely to revolt against the remaining russian garrison. Even if a garrison state survives, as population recovers, rump russia will almost certainly seek to reacquire it with a superior industrial base to back it up.

[chris N]

I concur . It is far more likely that the Russian Empire relocated into the Ukraine would eventually recover enough strength to re-exert control over any part of the empire located to the east.