Disasterous wars averted
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The American Civil War, WW 1, Napoleonic Wars, and WW 2 were wars that were inevitable. Spanish-American War, Vietnam, and Korea were wars that could have been avoide, but in the Spainish-American War neede to happen b/c the U.S. needed to show the European powers that we were not a push over, Vietnam and Korea needed to happen b/c the U.S. needed to stop the threat of Communism and the Soviet influence.
WW2 was not not really inevitable. The only factors that made it inevitable was the German loss in WW1 and the harsh terms of the Treaty of Versailles. Had Germany won or had the terms been less harsh, WW2 could have been avoided.
World War I was no more unavoidable than World War III. If WWIII happened, all the survivors would agree that it was as inevitable as WWI.ConfederateFly said:
lol, don't worry about it. To be honest, I think I got the idea from someone who said something along those lines on CTT.Grey Wolf said:
DominusNovus said:
In early 20th century, almost everyone wanted war. But only idiot would wish WW III.
WW II was avoidable - imagine taht Hitler died in accident, or Allies act braver.
WW II was avoidable - imagine taht Hitler died in accident, or Allies act braver.[/QUOTE]
It depends on a definition of wwII. If you define it "maniac takes over my country, murders millions etc.", it is avoidable. (Remove Hitler);
But you still have the revision of the outcome of 1918 as a cause for -some kind of- war.
And a war in the middle of Europe is most likely -forgive my eurocentrical way of thinking- to affect the rest of the world.
It depends on a definition of wwII. If you define it "maniac takes over my country, murders millions etc.", it is avoidable. (Remove Hitler);
But you still have the revision of the outcome of 1918 as a cause for -some kind of- war.
And a war in the middle of Europe is most likely -forgive my eurocentrical way of thinking- to affect the rest of the world.
Avoiding WWII
I think that if we had treated the Germans after WWI the way we treated them after WWII, there wouldn't have been a WWII.
After WWII we took away their territory and made them pay reparations. After WWI we didn't take away their territory and we paid them reparations. The Czechs did take over nomial government of the Sudetenlands, but they didn't take away the German farms from the owners, the way they did after WWII.
Also, and perhaps more importantly, in WWII we were very blunt about unconditional surrender and making them pay reparations. In WWI they surrendered on terms, the 14 points. If we had had victory discussions with the Allies before the war ended instead of afterwards, the war would have lasted till 1919 and the Germans would have know they were defeated, instead of feeling that their surrender terms had been violated.
I think that if we had treated the Germans after WWI the way we treated them after WWII, there wouldn't have been a WWII.
After WWII we took away their territory and made them pay reparations. After WWI we didn't take away their territory and we paid them reparations. The Czechs did take over nomial government of the Sudetenlands, but they didn't take away the German farms from the owners, the way they did after WWII.
Also, and perhaps more importantly, in WWII we were very blunt about unconditional surrender and making them pay reparations. In WWI they surrendered on terms, the 14 points. If we had had victory discussions with the Allies before the war ended instead of afterwards, the war would have lasted till 1919 and the Germans would have know they were defeated, instead of feeling that their surrender terms had been violated.
Thanks! Always love positive feedback.
Any questions, comments, suggestions?
Is this a troll? The French and English economies basically lived through the 20s on German reparations (and the occupation on the Ruhr) - even though most of it was immediately redirected to repaying debt owed to the US. Quite a lot of territory was taken from the Reich: Alsace-Moselle, Eupen-Malmédy, Schleswig-Holstein, part of Silesia, western Poland, Dantzig and Memel. (I don't have the figures here but this is probably the same order of magnitude as the territory taken from DDR+BRD in 45). And on the contrary, reparations were paid to Germany after WW2: that's called the Marshall Plan and it is widely acknowledged as one reason WW3 did not happen (yet).
As one former member put it, "nothing is inevitable until it happens".
As a thought exercise, I encourage anyone who finds WWII to be preordained by Versailles to refute this scenario, where WWII is avoided with a point of divergence less then a year before its outbreak.
As a thought exercise, I encourage anyone who finds WWII to be preordained by Versailles to refute this scenario, where WWII is avoided with a point of divergence less then a year before its outbreak.
Saphroneth
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Given what a complete mess of fuckups it took to push the Congress of Europe over into war, I rather doubt the inevitability of WW1.
Anaxagoras
Banned
The Franco-Prussian War was certainly avoidable. It's rather amazing that it happened at all.
Imo the Franco-Prussian one is harder to avoid than the later WWI.
Because both both Napoleon III and Bismarck had reasons to fight.
The first World War on the other hand could have been avoided with a little luck and better diplomacy. Maybe clearer positions and treatys all round.
Because both both Napoleon III and Bismarck had reasons to fight.
The first World War on the other hand could have been avoided with a little luck and better diplomacy. Maybe clearer positions and treatys all round.
A thread from when the site was a few days old. Admittedly, it was obviously an accident, but good job.
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