English language challenge

You know only that the TL has an English language like OTL (maybe "accent" or a few different words), but is only spoken in sothern England.
What is the latest POD that reasonably gives this?
 

Straha

Banned
you ofrgot to put and from the mar atalnticus to the mar pacaficus new andalus rules the continents of vespuccia.
 
Most obvious solution is:
Stronger Scotts (that took Northern England);
AND
Lost battle of domination over world: either with France or Spain, that blocked spreading of English all over the world.


I wouldn't like to live in such ATL.
 
Right, that's AH English, I would call it the Typish language... :rolleyes: :D
What I don't understand is why a not Anglo-Saxon dominated wourld should be necessarily worse than ours.
The French have not "invented" democracy like the Englishmen, but they have given solid proof to know it and to know when and how it must be enforced (in THEIR OWN homeland, not only the others'!)
As to Spain, well... brrr! But in recent years it underwent a real miracle. I bet no one, when I was born (1974), expected such modernization, denocracy and success from Spain.
 
Maybe just because he is used to an Anglo dominant world.
Someone from the "puny English ATL" might find OTL dystopian!
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
I don't think this is a possible TL if your are going to have English existing at all in the small area. This isn't due to history but the nature of English.

Most linguists admit that English has a major advantage over the rest of the world's languages. (All of the world's 'great' languages have such advantages, but in English those advantages contribute to its spread more than most others. )

English borrows words with a greater facility than almost any other language. This gives it a greater vocabulary (500,000+ words vs 300,000+ in its closest competitor) and thus a much wider range of expression with words alone. (It also leads to its greatest disadvantage, pronounciation and spelling, these are both very difficult in English as it very often does not follow its own rules). In addition, it was from the beginning a 'developed' language with its characteristic simple structure. These two facilities make it not only easier to learn but also a natural for the 'pidgin' process. Examine the world over and you will find wherever languages naturally mix to form others, pidgins, that English becomes the base and structure if it is one of the components.

If you place your POD after Britain had developed even a few colonies then the genie is out of the bottle. English may spread less but it will still spread widely. If you place it before that then whatever form of English was here already simply gobbles the new language into itself and then is spread by the conquerors. You may end up with a world where English is less widely spoken or sounds rather different but I do not believe you can end up with a world where some form of English that we would recognize is not spoken on a global scale.
 
In fact of word borowibg, there's a language that beats even English: Japanese.
Its 700,000 words vocabulary is mainly of medieval Chinese stock - but an impressive quantity of gaijin vocabulary is accepted still today.
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
basileus said:
In fact of word borowibg, there's a language that beats even English: Japanese.
Its 700,000 words vocabulary is mainly of medieval Chinese stock - but an impressive quantity of gaijin vocabulary is accepted still today.

I did not realize Japanese beat English as to vocabulary, but doesn't Japanese have the rather cumbersome kanji syllabary instead of an alphabet. And I'm not arguing that English is or will ever be the 'dominant' world language, (there may never be one of them) just that it will always be widely spoken.

One thing I'd like to know, can Japanese employ rhyme? I sometimes listen to Japanese songs and can't hear any but it could be I just don't know where to listen for it since I don't know where the words are.
 
NapoleonXIV said:
I did not realize Japanese beat English as to vocabulary, but doesn't Japanese have the rather cumbersome kanji syllabary instead of an alphabet. And I'm not arguing that English is or will ever be the 'dominant' world language, (there may never be one of them) just that it will always be widely spoken.

One thing I'd like to know, can Japanese employ rhyme? I sometimes listen to Japanese songs and can't hear any but it could be I just don't know where to listen for it since I don't know where the words are.

I'm not such an expert at Japanese, but I think rhymes are completely out of their culture. One major problem is their neutre pronunciation (almost no tonic accent), which, by depriving a phrase of a modulable rhythm, doesn't favorite rhymes.
Rhymes in Japanese... I've never thought this.
It's like wondering what's the best Arabian whiskey :D
 
tom said:
You know only that the TL has an English language like OTL (maybe "accent" or a few different words), but is only spoken in sothern England.
What is the latest POD that reasonably gives this?

Actually, the history I am developing in my King Arthur timeline is strongly pointing in that direction. In my timeline, the native Britons are able to contain and roll back the Anglo-Saxon invasion, with the result that by 700 A.D. the Anglo-Saxons are confined to East Anglia, Essex, Sussex and Kent, as well as a rump state of Deira north of the Humber. The POD for this would be c. 500 A.D. To view the timeline, the link is...

http://www.geocities.com/robertp6165/arthuriantimeline.html
 
robertp6165 said:
Actually, the history I am developing in my King Arthur timeline is strongly pointing in that direction. In my timeline, the native Britons are able to contain and roll back the Anglo-Saxon invasion, with the result that by 700 A.D. the Anglo-Saxons are confined to East Anglia, Essex, Sussex and Kent, as well as a rump state of Deira north of the Humber. The POD for this would be c. 500 A.D. To view the timeline, the link is...

http://www.geocities.com/robertp6165/arthuriantimeline.html

Excellent! I loved it.
(I have a sympathy for Celts)
 
For the english language to evolve as it has it would need to be invaded by the normans and vikings. therefore i think that you would have to hav an anglo saxon england that was overrun by the vikings and only managed to keep wessex. Then it would hav to b taken by the normans and the rest of england would be in the Danelaw
 
I did not realize Japanese beat English as to vocabulary, but doesn't Japanese have the rather cumbersome kanji syllabary instead of an alphabet. And I'm not arguing that English is or will ever be the 'dominant' world language, (there may never be one of them) just that it will always be widely spoken.

but writing like that would be much cooler ;)
 

bard32

Banned
There was a time after the American Revolution, that Congress was debating
whether or not to break completely with Britain. The break would have included making German, and not English, the language of this country.
 

Keenir

Banned
One thing I'd like to know, can Japanese employ rhyme? I sometimes listen to Japanese songs and can't hear any but it could be I just don't know where to listen for it since I don't know where the words are.

why would it have to rhyme?

after all -http://www.zompist.com/kitgram.html#poetry lots of other ways to make poetry and songs.
 
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