Something to think on before I go to bed.

An alliance of Britain, France and Austria winning the First World War against an alliance of Germany, Italy and the USA.

I've got way too much time on my hands.
 
Landshark said:
An alliance of Britain, France and Austria winning the First World War against an alliance of Germany, Italy and the USA.

I've got way too much time on my hands.

What is the POD? If these nations are at their OTL strength at about the time of World War 1, the Entente doesn't stand much of a chance in the long run.

You made no mention of Russia, does that mean they're neutral?

If so, the British/French/Austrians are especially doomed. Germany held up Austria-Hungary for most of the OTL war anyway. And perhaps Germany can provoke a civil war there, kind of like an analouge of the Russian civil war; getting the Hungarians to secede during the war would surely speed up Austria's demise; that and a second Italian front.

If the British still have Canada, they'll have to divert troops there in order to defend it from the USA, which will probably steamroll the country in a year and a half, maybe a bit more. That means fewer British troops in France; Germany will have a much easier time. The High Seas Fleet would probably do much better when fighting in tandem with the United States Navy- dare I say too much for the Royal Navy? Certainly in the long run; given the industrial strength of the USA.

The Italians don't do much, in my mind, except act as a crucial thorn in the Entente's side. The front with Austria gives the Germans an easier time and a likely Italian thrust aimed at Nice and the surrounding area would tie up the French.

Unless it's a POD far in the past (early to mid 1800's), I don't see the Entente holding up long in the face of the combined American/German juggernaught.
 
How about Rudolf replacing Franz Joseph post 1866 and the French monarchy being restored in 1871. Could they build first an anti-Prussian alliance based on their recent history with the new German emperor and then induce Britain to join as the Anglo-German arms race heats up?

Maybe tension could be ratchetted up between the UK and US over Hawaii?
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Landshark said:
How about Rudolf replacing Franz Joseph post 1866 and the French monarchy being restored in 1871. Could they build first an anti-Prussian alliance based on their recent history with the new German emperor and then induce Britain to join as the Anglo-German arms race heats up?

Maybe tension could be ratchetted up between the UK and US over Hawaii?

Now thats a pretty good POD

Now, to have them WIN the war. It would come down to what the role of the USA is in this war, IMHO

1870s USA is somewhat different from 1910s USA, and its possible for the USA to take a different evolutionary process than OTL's and end up in 1914 as a weaker and different power.

Maybe JP Morgan doesn't help Grover Cleveland's AG to come up with a legal but obscure way to solve the financial crisis and the USA, rich as it is, defaults on its loans in the early 1890s and goes into a period of crisis.

Maybe the silverites win and the economy crashes even more, maybe Bryan wins one of his election campaigns ? Maybe no Spanish-American War and noo Great White Fleet

Grey Wolf
 
Grey Wolf said:
Now thats a pretty good POD

Now, to have them WIN the war. It would come down to what the role of the USA is in this war, IMHO

1870s USA is somewhat different from 1910s USA, and its possible for the USA to take a different evolutionary process than OTL's and end up in 1914 as a weaker and different power.

Maybe JP Morgan doesn't help Grover Cleveland's AG to come up with a legal but obscure way to solve the financial crisis and the USA, rich as it is, defaults on its loans in the early 1890s and goes into a period of crisis.

Maybe the silverites win and the economy crashes even more, maybe Bryan wins one of his election campaigns ? Maybe no Spanish-American War and noo Great White Fleet

Grey Wolf

I like the idea of the USA being weaken by an 1890's reccession/depression, that's got some legs to it.

I think a series of crisises in the late 19th - early 20th centuries could produce an America ready to elect an authoritarian government that could find common cause with Germany.

Such a government could well be weakened by it's own nature of inflexibility.
 
A more militarized AustriaHungary (or perhaps a less militarized Germany) would be needed for this war to the alternative Entente to have any chance. As far as POD France was going to let Spain use St. Pierre as a base to raid the American East Coast but the Spaniards never went through with the plan. Maybe they do in this TL and it results in American outrage towards France.

Another alternative (not exclusive): The Kulturkampf gets out of hand and the Church really gets its dander up against Bismarck. The Dual Monarchy sides with the Catholic Party and the RC. Meanwhile the whole Leo Taxil thing gets raised to a higher level than OTL and he never retracts so the Pope is convinced America is run by Albert Pike who worships the Devil and performs sex magic. France goes into a SuperCatholic mode while Italy gets in a dispute over the status of the Vatican and becomes anticlerical.

Britain somehows exploits this, perhaps there is an AntiMasonic movement there as well.

Tom
 
1866: Austro-Prussian War ends in victory for Prussia. In August the Treaty of Prague disolves the German Confederation and expels Austria from German affairs. In September a recently demobbed Austrian soldier assasinates the Emperor Franz-Joseph. Franz-Joseph's brother Maximillian, erstwhile Emperor of Mexico decides to follow Napolean III advice and quit Mexico to return to his increasingly troubled homeland. On his arrival he becomes regent for the twelve year old Emperor Rudolf.

1870: Franco-Prussian War begins. Napolean III abdicates.

1871: Franco-Prussian War ends in victory for Prussia. France becomes a monarchy once more after the Comte de Chambord is convinced by his supporters that the only way France will ever have another king is if that king is a constitutional one.

Otto von Bismarck's plan to isolate France as a power is undermined from the start as the Austrian ambassedor makes a tentative overture to the French Foriegn Minister at the coronation of King Henry V of France.

The two countries have a common enemy.
 
If Maximillian and Rudolf build up the miliary/navy to the strength that they should have been OTL, then Austria might have a better chance against Germany. It's no great shame to copy -cat your rival, if he's got a better military. And if France becomes a strongly Catholic, conservative Monarchy (again - Orleanists grab the throne post 1871 in the general confusion?) southern Germany would not be too willing to fight against the French and definitely not against the Austrian. Both powers could probably even succeed in fostering separatist sentiments in the Catholic states - esp. Bavaria. In order for Austria to really be strengthened though, the Hungarian influence has to be limited, which means a total revision of the 'ausgleich.' This couldbe done by granting universal male sufferage in Hungary, which FJ threatened to do in 1912 (I think) because the Hungarians were getting too uppity with their demands. The Hungarian nobles were so pissed off they basically threatened civil war, but they acquiesced to the Emperor. So, Maximillian or Rudolf go ahead and do it. If there's an uprising, the Army will crush it in short order. Difficult to think how the Austro/French/British alliance will handle Russia, though, since Germany will ally with them to counterweight losing Austria.
 
Interestingly enough Maximillian was in the Austrian Navy before going to Mexico and helped create the naval base at Treste. So expanding the army and navy to the point where they can take on Germany should be high on the agenda.

As for the French monarchy and the Orleanists, the idea was when the childless Chambord died the crown would pass to the Orleanist candidate thereby healing the rife between the two factions.

Some solution to the Hungarian problem will need to be found and a way to isolate Russia as well. The idea of Austria sponsoring a Bavarian revolution during the war to occupy Berlin is appealing.
 
In order to contain Russia, I think the Entente would have two options: 1.) Austria and Russia come to an agreement regarding the Balkans. Romania and Bulgaria are in the Russian sphere, and Serbia and Greece are in the Austrian sphere, as is Albania - France, Britain, and Austria make some ambiguous promises regarding Constantinople to Russia. 2.)If the Entente cannot guarantee Russian neutrality or add them as an all, then Britain's alliance with Japan comes in quite handy, since they can promise a free hand in Manchuria/Vladivlostok and northern Sakhalin. Or again, maybe a combination of the two possibilities.

Archduke Maximillian and/or Kaiser Rudolf decide to ride roughshod over the Hungarian nobles and grant universal male sufferage - the 'kingdom of Hungary' still exists, but the myth of Hungarian majority is destroyed. An uprising occurs centered in Budapest against the new laws, which lasts a whole year before it is put down by the Imperial Army. Dalmatia is added to Croatia, which they (the Croats) wanted. Rudolf and Maximilian make promises to the Czechs to establish a 'kingdom' of their own, but at the same time they promise the German minority that they will have equal say in the government.
 
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