Grey Wolf said:Very interesting, Scott, but if you are going to say 'of course' could you explain why ?
Grey Wolf
tetsu-katana said:I was leaning toward al-Firanja, but I read somewhere that it's the Muslim word for Europe, not just France. But it does mean 'land of the Franks', so it could work for just France.
tetsu-katana said:In this TL I'm currently in the proccess of writing, France is conquered by Muslims early on, (not the main point of the TL, though) and I need a name for it. What would a Muslim France be called? I heard al-Aquitane somewhere, but I'm not sure. Any suggestions?
carlton_bach said:What's the word for 'Land that's too bloody cold and wet to be any good' in Arabic?
fhaessig said:That's going to need a far-reaching PoD.
Despite caroligian propaganda, what Charles Martel beat was not an invasion, but a largish raid ( and not the last such ).
In fact, there were muslim establishment in France proper untill the late XIth century OTL.
Faeelin said:He faced a rather large raid, IMO. And IIRC, didn't the muslims garrison bordeaux?
Here's an interesting, although likely inaccurate, article: http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/199302/the.arabs.in.occitania.htm
tetsu-katana said:The POD is that an invasion force does conquer France. (the rest of Europe doesn't fall, just Spain and France, and parts of Italy.) .
NapoleonXIV said:What logistics? Medieval "armies" lived off the land as I understand it. Even in its early stages its a misconception to think of an Islamic "empire". Arabs who went beyond the Pyrenees, like their Christian counterparts pushing into Austria and Eastern Europe, were probably trying to get away from home as much as bring it with them.
I'd not be certain about all but the latter, but I doubt Al-Firanj or Al-Ittalya would be Egypt with cooler weather in any circumstances.Straha said:western european islam would eventually become a seperate sect that doesn't have the prohibitions agaisnt alcohol,eatign pork an translating the koran into the local languages.
Excellent point. I for one have always thought that the Andalucian govorners would have been better off solidifying control of the Pyrrenes(sp?) and breaking the Austrurias in detail.fhaessig said:The question is how do the muslims deal with the logistics problem. It was this, nore than frank warriors which stopped them from going over the Pyrenees OTL. Not to mention they had to deal with continuing Christian resistance in Spain.
fhaessig said:Despite caroligian propaganda, what Charles Martel beat was not an invasion, but a largish raid ( and not the last such ).