AH Challenge: A different 20th century Europe

With a POD no earlier than 1900, make a present-day Europe that looks like this:

alteuropa.gif
 
Note that Italy has Savoy and Nice, Spain has Gibraltar, Iceland has the Faroe Islands and Turkey has lost control of Kurdistan.
 
im going to say Hitlers invasion of Checkoslovakia fails, and Goering takes control. Goeirng uses economic policies to bankrupt france, so France under Petain sells A+L to Germany, Petain is thrown out of office, but the Germans intervien and put him back in control. Poland sells back the Polish corridor or the Germans take it???
italy goes Imperial and allied with Greece, and conquors areas of balkans, and takes corsica while France is turned inward. Spainish civ war ends in truce brokerd by Goering. Nationalists have Main, Loyalists have Catalonia.
Germans activly support the Irish plebiside in the LoN, so as to put a thron in the brits side or the British gov colapses thus Icleand has the faeroes
, Russia decomposes after Molotov kills Stalin. Baltics and Ukrane enter the German sphere of influence to stop the new Russia from invading,
thats about it
 
Scarecrow said:
im going to say Hitlers invasion of Checkoslovakia fails, and Goering takes control. Goeirng uses economic policies to bankrupt france, so France under Petain sells A+L to Germany, Petain is thrown out of office, but the Germans intervien and put him back in control. Poland sells back the Polish corridor or the Germans take it???
italy goes Imperial and allied with Greece, and conquors areas of balkans, and takes corsica while France is turned inward. Spainish civ war ends in truce brokerd by Goering. Nationalists have Main, Loyalists have Catalonia.
Germans activly support the Irish plebiside in the LoN, so as to put a thron in the brits side or the British gov colapses thus Icleand has the faeroes
, Russia decomposes after Molotov kills Stalin. Baltics and Ukrane enter the German sphere of influence to stop the new Russia from invading,
thats about it
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

OH and please pardon me from posting and not participating, this map is sooo twisted for 20th century PoD
 

Vince

Monthly Donor
Hmm...I'll guess the POD is WWI breaks out with Italy joining the central powers. The Allies successfully seizes the dardanelles and knocks the Ottomans out of the war earlier but bog down on the western front. Greece annexs the City and the Aegean coastline.

Germany goes with Van Waldersee's plan of attacking Russia first instead of the Schiffen Plan. Russia drops out after Czar Nicholas is deposed and Kerensky signs a peace losing Poland, the Baltics, Ukraine, Finland and Belarus. Lenin is unsucessful in his coup attempt.

Romania never enters the war due to the Entente's worse fortunes. Serbia is conquered and made a puppet to the Central Powers. Bulgaria tries to seize Greece's new gains and fails.

On the western front with an Italian front added to France's commitments she fights to exhaustion and loses. Germany offers peace losing Nice, Savoy and Corsica to Italy and colonial gains to Germany.

AH falls apart after Franz Joseph dies a few years after the war. With France and Russia too weak to protest and the UK not ready to fight a war alone against all of Central Europe it lets Italy, Germany and Serbia divide up the empire while leaving an independent Hungary.

Spain still breaks apart in civil war. The Nationalists win but without German and Italian support the Republicans manages to hold control of the Basque and Catalan regions and declare the republic of Catalonia.
 
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Diamond

Banned
Some observations:

Greece has some Anatolian territory, as well as Constantinople. Coupled with a larger Italy, does this mean at some point Italy allied with Greece and the two proceeded to dominate the central and eastern Med? It's hard to tell without seeing Africa. Who owns Egypt and the rest of North Africa?

There's no Luxembourg. Not sure what that means, just thought I'd mention it. :)

The independent Russian states make me wonder if the '17 Revolution wasn't less successful, at least from the POV of the Communists. Maybe one or more of those states stayed monarchist?

I'm going to say that the POD is the Russian Revolution, though what exactly occurred I'm not sure. Mussolini still rose to power in Italy in the 20s, and worked out a mutually beneficial alliance with Greece. The Spanish civil war resulted in a fragmented Spain.
 

Redbeard

Banned
WWI ends in a draw, but only after slaughters comparable to those of OTL.

On the western Front the German Army remains undefeated, but Russia is already in revolution and the Ottomans are even more badly mauled outside the European continent, where not even a undefeated Germany can help. Kemal Atatürk chokes in a shish-kebab in 1918, and the campaign to expell the Greeks from the Agean coast fails utterly, the Greeks "liberating" Istanbul in 1921 and proclaiming the rebirth of the Byzantine Empire. A-H doesn't survive the armistice by many months before dissolving in ethnic unrest. The Hungarians secure a large chunk for themselves as does Italy, while the rest finds their own identity. Some years after Austria is amalgated with Germany after a referendum. The Germans can however resist Danish demands for a referendum in Schleswig, and the border from 1864 remains intact.

The Revolution in Russia has communists in power in Russia itself but "whites" in the smaller states in the western parts of the former Russian Empire.

The feeling of having fought for years without achieveing anything leads to unrest all over Europe, and at least temporaily weakens many ruling systems. In UK this eventually (1920's) has Ireland (Eire?) achieve independency.

Communist unrest soon spread to countries not involved in WWI, and in Spain the civil war of the 1930's ends with republican Catalonia seperating from nationalist Spain.

In Germany the Kaiser remains in power, but the socialdemocrats with increasing success limits his power - and the navy budgets. The real breakthrough is when capital realises, that socialdemocrats are the best defense against communists, and the Army is assured that it is only the navy that is to be reduced. Wilhelm dies in 1941 as a symbolic but loved figurehead.

In 1939 Stalin has a go at Finland, but in this TL Finland is swiftly supported by Germany, UK and the Scandinavian countries and the Russians are even more badly mauled. After Leningrad has fallen to the Finish Army and the International Expeditionary Force in early 1940 Stalin is assassinated and SU falls into chaos. Finland keeps large areas occupied, incl. Leningrad, and after a decade of famine in Russia the remaining Russians in the Finish occupied areas happily vote for joining Finland in 1953. Russia is by late 50's and still today ruled by a theocracy with the Patriarch of Moscow being the real ruler. It is stable, people are fed, clad and drunk, it's strong enough to keep enemies out, but it is terribly backward, hardly ever sober and no big threat to anybody outside Russia. A lot of Russians, not at least those not being Orthodox or alcoholic, flee Russia and the progromes and most arrive in USA.

France stays in almost permanent chaos after the anticlimax of suffering so much and gaining nothing in WWI. French nationalism soon reach strident levels, and one of the main conflict lines shows up in Belgium, where the French speaking Wallonians are spured into seeing the Flemish as devils. In 1968 large demonstrations in Paris, lead by students from Sorbonne, demands that the government intervene in Belgium. Soon French troops roll over the border to Belgium and reports of attrocities aimed at the Flemish soon flash the news all over the world. The Dutch, British and German governments demand that the French withdraw. The French reply something like: "We will fart in your general direction, and your mother was a hamster!"

Soon the "War of 68" is a reality. German and Dutch troops liberate Belgium while the British hauls down the Tricolore at various places outside Europe and hoists the Union Jack. In the peace agreement Belgium is transformed into a Dutch protectorate, while France falls into an even deeper depression, mentally and economically. By early 2005 the Belgiums happily vote for a "Leningrad II" joining the Dutch.

In 1995 a demand from Faroe Island for more government grants is sent to Copenhagen, and is followed by a: "...or else we want independence!". Soon a letter from Copenhagen is issued to all households on the Faroe Islands, it goes like this:

"Dear Faroe Islanders
We have been together for centuries, but everything has an end, and so does our union. The Inspection Ship Beskytteren will therefore leave Thorshavn next Tuesday at 1200 bringing with it Danish moveables and officials. If you would like to leave too, you can que up at the quay, and we take as many onboard as space allows. The rest will have to seek asylum.

Bye bye

Margrethe II, Queen"

This immediately has the Faroe Islands enter a severe economic crisis, but by 2001 a union with Iceland is concluded however. In Copenhagen Danish officials do note, that the Greenlanders are remarkably easy and not very demanding to negotiate with about government grants.

USA never really got involved in WWI, and tried to forget that they formally had declared war on Germany in April 1917 - it obviously didn't work to intervene across the Atlantic. That pretty much sets the standards of US foreign policy for the next century. USA thrives economically and culturally and still has a large influx of European immigrants, not at least Russian Jews and intelectuals, and later also a lot of Frenchmen. Some Americans advocates that USA should actively fight the huge British Empire, but Congress never really wants to grant money for the forces needed for such an adventure. Japan has been a concern a couple of times, but the British Empire has each time tackled it before it became serious, and other Americans remarked that as it was the RN that maintained the Monroe Doctrine in the 19th century in the Atlantic, it was the same in the Pacific in the 20th, and that really was an advantageous solution for the US taxpayers.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
Redbeard said:
WWI ends in a draw, but only after slaughters comparable to those of OTL.

On the western Front the German Army remains undefeated, but Russia is already in revolution and the Ottomans are even more badly mauled outside the European continent, where not even a undefeated Germany can help. Kemal Atatürk chokes in a shish-kebab in 1918, and the campaign to expell the Greeks from the Agean coast fails utterly, the Greeks "liberating" Istanbul in 1921 and proclaiming the rebirth of the Byzantine Empire. A-H doesn't survive the armistice by many months before dissolving in ethnic unrest. The Hungarians secure a large chunk for themselves as does Italy, while the rest finds their own identity. Some years after Austria is amalgated with Germany after a referendum. The Germans can however resist Danish demands for a referendum in Schleswig, and the border from 1864 remains intact.

The Revolution in Russia has communists in power in Russia itself but "whites" in the smaller states in the western parts of the former Russian Empire.

The feeling of having fought for years without achieveing anything leads to unrest all over Europe, and at least temporaily weakens many ruling systems. In UK this eventually (1920's) has Ireland (Eire?) achieve independency.

Communist unrest soon spread to countries not involved in WWI, and in Spain the civil war of the 1930's ends with republican Catalonia seperating from nationalist Spain.

In Germany the Kaiser remains in power, but the socialdemocrats with increasing success limits his power - and the navy budgets. The real breakthrough is when capital realises, that socialdemocrats are the best defense against communists, and the Army is assured that it is only the navy that is to be reduced. Wilhelm dies in 1941 as a symbolic but loved figurehead.

In 1939 Stalin has a go at Finland, but in this TL Finland is swiftly supported by Germany, UK and the Scandinavian countries and the Russians are even more badly mauled. After Leningrad has fallen to the Finish Army and the International Expeditionary Force in early 1940 Stalin is assassinated and SU falls into chaos. Finland keeps large areas occupied, incl. Leningrad, and after a decade of famine in Russia the remaining Russians in the Finish occupied areas happily vote for joining Finland in 1953. Russia is by late 50's and still today ruled by a theocracy with the Patriarch of Moscow being the real ruler. It is stable, people are fed, clad and drunk, it's strong enough to keep enemies out, but it is terribly backward, hardly ever sober and no big threat to anybody outside Russia. A lot of Russians, not at least those not being Orthodox or alcoholic, flee Russia and the progromes and most arrive in USA.

France stays in almost permanent chaos after the anticlimax of suffering so much and gaining nothing in WWI. French nationalism soon reach strident levels, and one of the main conflict lines shows up in Belgium, where the French speaking Wallonians are spured into seeing the Flemish as devils. In 1968 large demonstrations in Paris, lead by students from Sorbonne, demands that the government intervene in Belgium. Soon French troops roll over the border to Belgium and reports of attrocities aimed at the Flemish soon flash the news all over the world. The Dutch, British and German governments demand that the French withdraw. The French reply something like: "We will fart in your general direction, and your mother was a hamster!"

Soon the "War of 68" is a reality. German and Dutch troops liberate Belgium while the British hauls down the Tricolore at various places outside Europe and hoists the Union Jack. In the peace agreement Belgium is transformed into a Dutch protectorate, while France falls into an even deeper depression, mentally and economically. By early 2005 the Belgiums happily vote for a "Leningrad II" joining the Dutch.

In 1995 a demand from Faroe Island for more government grants is sent to Copenhagen, and is followed by a: "...or else we want independence!". Soon a letter from Copenhagen is issued to all households on the Faroe Islands, it goes like this:

"Dear Faroe Islanders
We have been together for centuries, but everything has an end, and so does our union. The Inspection Ship Beskytteren will therefore leave Thorshavn next Tuesday at 1200 bringing with it Danish moveables and officials. If you would like to leave too, you can que up at the quay, and we take as many onboard as space allows. The rest will have to seek asylum.

Bye bye

Margrethe II, Queen"

This immediately has the Faroe Islands enter a severe economic crisis, but by 2001 a union with Iceland is concluded however. In Copenhagen Danish officials do note, that the Greenlanders are remarkably easy and not very demanding to negotiate with about government grants.

USA never really got involved in WWI, and tried to forget that they formally had declared war on Germany in April 1917 - it obviously didn't work to intervene across the Atlantic. That pretty much sets the standards of US foreign policy for the next century. USA thrives economically and culturally and still has a large influx of European immigrants, not at least Russian Jews and intelectuals, and later also a lot of Frenchmen. Some Americans advocates that USA should actively fight the huge British Empire, but Congress never really wants to grant money for the forces needed for such an adventure. Japan has been a concern a couple of times, but the British Empire has each time tackled it before it became serious, and other Americans remarked that as it was the RN that maintained the Monroe Doctrine in the 19th century in the Atlantic, it was the same in the Pacific in the 20th, and that really was an advantageous solution for the US taxpayers.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

Bright day
Wow you almost got it all down. But what about Gibraltar. And I believe Slovakia is in possasion of Carpathian Ukraine, which seems to me as impossible without previous union with Czechs...
 

Redbeard

Banned
Gladi said:
Bright day
Wow you almost got it all down. But what about Gibraltar. And I believe Slovakia is in possasion of Carpathian Ukraine, which seems to me as impossible without previous union with Czechs...

Hi Gladi

Gibraltar:
In the Spanish Civil War the nationalists suspect the British of supporting the republicans and invade Gibraltar. This of course pisses off the British who immediately occupy Canary Islands and Madeira (well the last is Portuguese, but Foreign Office only realises that after the invasion). Next the Republicans receive massive British supplies, but the British hesitate to initiate a costly landing operation at Gibraltar. At the peace conference Catalonia is granted independence, and the British and the Spanish each want back Gibraltar/Canary Islands, and they both reply: "Come and get it if you dare!". That way it all ends up with the British getting Canary Islands and Spain getting Gibraltar.

Carpathian Ukraine:
After some decades of economically hard times the Autonome province of C.U. puts out an international tender in 2005 for a new Lord. Only Cayman Islands and Slovakia puts in bids, andalthough the tax rules and bank secrecy policies of Cayman Island are tempting, the CA's choose Slovakia for logistic reasons and the good sausage and beer produced there.

Sorry I couldn't think of anything better - I know very little about Carpathian Ukraine - originally part of A-H?

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
Redbeard said:
Hi Gladi
Carpathian Ukraine:
After some decades of economically hard times the Autonome province of C.U. puts out an international tender in 2005 for a new Lord. Only Cayman Islands and Slovakia puts in bids, andalthough the tax rules and bank secrecy policies of Cayman Island are tempting, the CA's choose Slovakia for logistic reasons and the good sausage and beer produced there.

Sorry I couldn't think of anything better - I know very little about Carpathian Ukraine - originally part of A-H?

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

:D
That is quite funny.
Well Uzhorod and rest of region were part of A-H. After WWI there were essentially fourfactions- Czech, Polish, Hungarian, and one for Ukrainie (what is adjective of Ukraine?). Magyar Soviet Republic occupied it and so discretited (for time) the Hungarian faction, After Czech-Polish war the latter acquiscied the Czech claims and Uklraine was simply too far away. After WWII it was occupied by Red army and made join Soviet Republic of Ukraine where it has remained forever since, unfortunately.

Post Scriptum:Oh and what has spurred Italians into taking the inland part of Croatia (name escapes me now)?

Reall last word: sigh I too would like to make such challenges, but I know no one would reply, sigh,
 
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The Carpathian Ukraine has always been significantly different from the rest of the Ukraine linguistically and ethnically - to this day it is a hotbed of Ukrainian (or, rather, Ruthenian) nationalism, as opposed to Russian speaking industrialized East (in particular the areas around Donetsk and Kharkov), the Tatar, Russian, and Jewish population of the south, and the urbanized, cosmopolitan central Ukraine around Kiev. In fact, if there is one part of the Ukraine that would be always at risk of secession, that would be it.


Gladi said:
:D
That is quite funny.
Well Uzhorod and rest of region were part of A-H. After WWI there were essentially fourfactions- Czech, Polish, Hungarian, and one for Ukrainie (what is adjective of Ukraine?). Magyar Soviet Republic occupied it and so discretited (for time) the Hungarian faction, After Czech-Polish war the latter acquiscied the Czech claims and Uklraine was simply too far away. After WWII it was occupied by Red army and made join Soviet Republic of Ukraine where it has remained forever since, unfortunately.

Post Scriptum:Oh and what has spurred Italians into taking the inland part of Croatia (name escapes me now)?

Reall last word: sigh I too would like to make such challenges, but I know no one would reply, sigh,
 
Bright day
First, thanks for reminding me how to say Rusín in english :).
Well I did not said there are not feelings in Ruthenia, but from what I got from Czech papers they would not seccede necause it still would not be viable.
And it would be even less viable to be independant after WWI, there were what 3 cities (towns)? For Perun's sake there were still highwayman at the time :eek:!. I simply find it strange to see two underdevoleped regions who were wanted by their stronger neighbors. I still can say that there can be Slovak state even though they have unjust borders of Triannon. But lumping with it Ruthenia is simply too strange for me to be left unexplained.
Oh, just found info that there independents...hmm
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Archduke Wilhelm of the Teschen line tried to put himself up as leader of the Ruthenians in the confusing period after Brest-Litovsk and the collapse of the Central Powers. I could certainly see a timeline where a CP victory allows for a Ruthenian state (Ruthenia-Volhynia) perhaps as a buffer between Poland and Ukraine

Grey Wolf
 
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