Carter assassinated
- Thread starter tom
- Start date
I see very little change.
Mondale becomes President. There's no reason to believe he would change any of Carter's policies. Most likely he is less successful in brokering peace between Israel & Egypt.
In 1980 he is thumped by Reagan. In 1984 Gary Hart gets the Democratic nom for President and loses (despite getting a better turnout than Mondale).
Hart goes for the nom again in '88 and gets shut down by the Rice scandal again.
Mondale becomes President. There's no reason to believe he would change any of Carter's policies. Most likely he is less successful in brokering peace between Israel & Egypt.
In 1980 he is thumped by Reagan. In 1984 Gary Hart gets the Democratic nom for President and loses (despite getting a better turnout than Mondale).
Hart goes for the nom again in '88 and gets shut down by the Rice scandal again.
The Vice President succeeds
If he was assassinated in 1979 the VP gets a sympathy bounce and 1980 to 1984 are Democratic. In 1977 we don't wind up on the outs with Iran because while Carter was a conservative, his VP was a liberal. If we don't confiscate the Iranian government funds in the US (while leaving alone the stolen Iranian funds in the Swiss banks), the Iranian government is not going to think we are an enemy and increase the price of oil to punish us, so we don't sic Saddam on Iran to redeem the occupied Arab province where the oil is.
Either way it's a change.
If he was assassinated in 1979 the VP gets a sympathy bounce and 1980 to 1984 are Democratic. In 1977 we don't wind up on the outs with Iran because while Carter was a conservative, his VP was a liberal. If we don't confiscate the Iranian government funds in the US (while leaving alone the stolen Iranian funds in the Swiss banks), the Iranian government is not going to think we are an enemy and increase the price of oil to punish us, so we don't sic Saddam on Iran to redeem the occupied Arab province where the oil is.
Either way it's a change.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
Grey Wolf said:Well, I rather guess it would depend who by
Grey Wolf
Whom. Tsk.
Nixon tried that and it didn't work.
Politicians learn from mistakes if they see and experience them. It's when enough time has gone by that they forget them. Light rail, for instance. After you build one of them it takes a generation to forget the lies, broken promises, cost overruns, and general pain. Same thing goes for sports stadiums. It took twenty five years to forget the pain of BART and put in the San Jose Light Rail. It was too soon after the last stadium for the latest proposal to build another one to pass.
He would have cut the military budget even more than Carter did, and then after the Russians invaded Afghanistan he would have increased it even more than Carter did. Liberals always overreact to people trying to take advantage of them.
Dictators never seem to learn that that's what happens when you mess with a democracy. They think that not beating up on them is a sign of weakness, because people project themselves on others and see their motivations in them.
Tom_B said:
Politicians learn from mistakes if they see and experience them. It's when enough time has gone by that they forget them. Light rail, for instance. After you build one of them it takes a generation to forget the lies, broken promises, cost overruns, and general pain. Same thing goes for sports stadiums. It took twenty five years to forget the pain of BART and put in the San Jose Light Rail. It was too soon after the last stadium for the latest proposal to build another one to pass.
He would have cut the military budget even more than Carter did, and then after the Russians invaded Afghanistan he would have increased it even more than Carter did. Liberals always overreact to people trying to take advantage of them.
Dictators never seem to learn that that's what happens when you mess with a democracy. They think that not beating up on them is a sign of weakness, because people project themselves on others and see their motivations in them.
1977 is a bit early .. hardly anything happened by then. However, if the circumstances are right I could see him becoming something of a legend. Even more so if the assassination happens later. Think of it:
- He was a born-again Christian. Even many otherwise conservative Christians regarded him as 'one of theirs' at the time. If a right-wing radical killed him, that could create a rift in the religious vote, minimising the influence of Moral Majority-type pressure groups.
- his policies had yet to generate any significant defeats. Without the Iran hostage crisis to his name, and with an economic upturn following soon after his Presidency was cut short, Carter might become another liberal legend of promise unfulfilled - the man who could have created an ethical, fairer, better America. Kind of a second Kennedy
- It could stop Reagan. If Carter's death can be pinned on the right wing, that could create enough resentment to swing the next election. Of course, if an Islamist killed him that could create massive trouble.
- If a Democratic administration in the Carter tradition is around by the time Gorbachev comes to power, the end of the cold war could take a very different shape. Russia might go the way of China rather than giving capitalism a bad name for generations.
- He was a born-again Christian. Even many otherwise conservative Christians regarded him as 'one of theirs' at the time. If a right-wing radical killed him, that could create a rift in the religious vote, minimising the influence of Moral Majority-type pressure groups.
- his policies had yet to generate any significant defeats. Without the Iran hostage crisis to his name, and with an economic upturn following soon after his Presidency was cut short, Carter might become another liberal legend of promise unfulfilled - the man who could have created an ethical, fairer, better America. Kind of a second Kennedy
- It could stop Reagan. If Carter's death can be pinned on the right wing, that could create enough resentment to swing the next election. Of course, if an Islamist killed him that could create massive trouble.
- If a Democratic administration in the Carter tradition is around by the time Gorbachev comes to power, the end of the cold war could take a very different shape. Russia might go the way of China rather than giving capitalism a bad name for generations.
Big question on Camp David.
We now know Carter had actually promised the Arabs that his position towards Israel after his re-election would be much harsher than before. Would Mondale, a man of integrity by all accounts, do this? If not, would Sadat still make peace(I think Sadat would have) and if so, would his price have been higher? On the other hand, without Carter offending the Israelis, who knew his plans well, would Begin have been more agreeable and the treaty come faster?
We now know Carter had actually promised the Arabs that his position towards Israel after his re-election would be much harsher than before. Would Mondale, a man of integrity by all accounts, do this? If not, would Sadat still make peace(I think Sadat would have) and if so, would his price have been higher? On the other hand, without Carter offending the Israelis, who knew his plans well, would Begin have been more agreeable and the treaty come faster?
Straha
Banned
Heres my timeline on how to get a Carter assasination with some minor changes in nixon's adminstration
For Want Of A Carter
art I
1968-Christian vigilance movement formed
-the "summer of love"
-the UK and ireland join the EEC
-11/68-nixon elected president over humphrey
1969-Ulster gets independence and joins the EEC in a referendum
-the Rhodesias unite and establish harsh race policies
1970-Japan's economy booms
-Godzilla vs. Smog Monster II released
-the Basran islamic republic which consists of the southern 1/3 of iraq and kuwait forms as a revolution
1971-the economy begins to slow down in an ominous reminder of things to come
-Godzilla vs. The MegaMonsters is released
-riots against the draft occur
-
1972-it is revealed that nixon ordered the robbery of the watergate hotel
-King Kong vs. Ebirah premiers to a flop ut in later years it will(film)
-anti-nixon protests swarm major cities after he announcees his intent to continue the war in vietnam
-Nixon refuses to do a "war on drugs" program
-Godzilla Vs Redmoon is a hit in theaters
-woodstock '72
-8/72-The mahabad republic which is the kurdish areas of Iraq and small parts of turkey declares independence
-10/12/72-China is admitted to the UN on the condision that Taiwan is recognized
-11/72-Nixon wins by 1 electoral vote against Eugene McCarthy in the most corrupt election in history
1973-people are protesting against nixon
-Bermuda asks to join the USA and is accepted. It is given de facto state status with senators and representatives but it will be given actual statehood in a fancy bicentennial ceremony
-the USSR lands a man on the moon
-The No New Prohibition movement appears
1974-the No New prohibition movement becomes more popular
-3/4/74-Nixon's vice president, Gerald ford is arrested on corruption charges and Spiro Agnew assumes the presidency
-7/12/74-Islamic militants take power in Saudi Arabia
-7/19/74-in order to ensure nothing like what Nixon did is possible, President Agnew signs into law
1975-President Agnew begins a slow process of moving troops out of vietnam
-English is declared the official language of america with no exceptions
-President Agnew is nearly impeached several times for corruption
-Punk Folk music bursts on the scene in the USA
-7/4/75-the USA converts to metric
1976-President Agnew signs several laws into action which help to stop the deindustrialization as his last acts
-Godzilla Vs Death Ghidorah is released(film)
-Avro Arrow plane tests suceed
-the first virtual reality systems appear
-Walter Mondale before the campaign takes classes to improve his assertiveness and charisma
-the first hemp shops open in the more cosmopolitan cities
-President Agnew begins to slowly bribe vietnam into nuetrality with promises of investment and aid
-2/3/76-the USA leaves vietnam and plans are made for investment.
-6/7/76-The Narcotics reform act passed which legalizes marijuana and decriminalizes all other drugs
-7/4/76-Bermuda and Puerto Rico recive statehood in pomp and ceremoney admist the bicentennial
-9/3/76-an irish radical flies a small propellor plane into big ben
-11/76-the Carter-Mondale ticket beats Ford in a landslide
-11/24-76-President Carter negotiates a peace treaty between Isreal and egypt,jordan,iraq and lebadon. Provisions for slowly giving palestine autonomy and later independence by the end of the 20th century.
-12/3/76-Godzilla vs. Hitodah released(film)
1977-Commonwealth Aerospace agency(CASA) founded with Canada,Britain
-the arab oil emargo is reduced in its scope and argentina,brazil and chile slowly start to recover
-the televangelists collapse after major scandals
-Apple II
-1/13/77-the European Alliance is formed with Britain,Belgium,denmark,West Germany,Italy,netherlands,france and ireland
-2/3/77-President Jimmy Carter is assasinated by a christian bible thumper militiaman who was paid by Jerry Falwell by the name of Zebadiah Jones
-2/5/77-1/9/78-the Jones Trial is constantly obsfucated and it nearly lasts a year
-6/8/77-President Mondale opens up relations and trrade with Vietnam and Cuba in an attempt to help detente
-8/1/77-The South American Community founded as a free trade area
1978-Cuba and vietnam cancel their alliances with the USSR/China and begin to enjoy a status as nuetrals who are bribed with HEAVY investment and trade bribes to stay out of the cold war
-beginning of second cold warafter USA coaxes Cuba/vietnam out of the commie orbit
-Argentina begins to experiance higher than normal levels of economic growth
-cheap plastics appears which will prevent the tropical wood boom
-3-D films become popular
-Godzilla Vs. The Devil which is a joint US/Japanese production between Toho and UPA Productions premiers as a hit(film)
-An alarming rise in the occurrence of penile and cervical cancer in Americans leads to the discovery of a new variant of papomilla virus. This sexually transmitted virus can be passed on even during protected sex, and causes particularly aggressive and resistant tumours.
-4/1/78-1979 Pat Robertson, speaking on the Christian Broadcasting Network, says that papomilla is God's punishment for promiscuity. The frantic
reproduction of cancer cells in defiance of the commandments of the body
reflects the frantic fornication of human beings in defiance of God's
commandments. He makes great mileage out of the public education
campaign, noting that even secular doctors and Godless Hollywood are
recommending a return to Christian morality (much to the irritation of
the actress, a committed atheist).
-8/12/78-the equal rights amendment passed
-10/3/78-Saddam Hussein attempts a coup but is executed for treason
1979-William Proxmire drops dead
-Richard Simmons hires a gym and starts a combination of preaching, aerobic exercise, and diet cookery called "Holy Fire". The classes are extremely popular, attracting both Christians bored with traditional services and the non-religious who are concerned about their health. The Christian Broadcasting Network starts screening his sermons and many mainstream preachers take up his message. John Hagee loses 50 kilograms in a Holy Fire program and wheels that amount of lard onto the stage in a little red wagon during his sermon. "For those that seek a miracle from God, I am that miracle. I have cast off the flabby carapace of the Devil and I feel the power of God flowing through me!" The TV actress's cancer metastasises and she becomes a born-again Christian. After several Holy Fire sermons combined with traditional treatment, the cancer goes into remission. This "miracle" proves extremely impressive.
-Godzilla vs. Gigamoth released(film)
-the USSR begins some economic reforms
-An Apple employee convinces his superiors to buy the rights to VisiCalc
-4/1/79-Thomas Jefferson's face is destroyed by a meteor
-5/6/79-Jimmy Carter face begins to be carved out of mount rushmore to replace the destroyed face of Thomas Jefferson
-8/79-the first shipping rockets are introduces
1980-China and the USSR nearly go to war
-AIDS is discovered by the government and President Mondale begins a program of quarentine camps and public awareness in a campaign to stop STDs(think some of the more extreme measures like internemnt camp.
-A survey finds that religious belief and church attendance in the
US has increased significantly in the Protestant churches
-a near relative of Tesla gives his notebooks full of data to the USA governemnt
-the negative income tax act is passed by congress
-By the shadow of his wings by Robert Heinlen is a popular science fiction noval
-7/8/80-Godzilla 3-D premiers in the movie theaters
-9/15/80-the great riots
-11/80-the democratic candidates, Walter Mondale and John Glenn sweep into office in an FDR style landslide over Ronald Reagan
-11/5/80-Institute for Venereal Cancer announces the
discovery of a papomilla-specific viricide. This drug will prevent
infection by the papomilla virus in healthy subjects, and will render
papomilla cases non-infectious. This drug will also cure all symptoms of the virus.
-12/1/80-the Majarist nation of arabia is founded when Basra, Arabia,Yemen unite
-12/22/80-the southern 1/3 of majarist arabia declares itself as the kingdom of arabia under king Ibn Saud
For Want Of A Carter
art I1968-Christian vigilance movement formed
-the "summer of love"
-the UK and ireland join the EEC
-11/68-nixon elected president over humphrey
1969-Ulster gets independence and joins the EEC in a referendum
-the Rhodesias unite and establish harsh race policies
1970-Japan's economy booms
-Godzilla vs. Smog Monster II released
-the Basran islamic republic which consists of the southern 1/3 of iraq and kuwait forms as a revolution
1971-the economy begins to slow down in an ominous reminder of things to come
-Godzilla vs. The MegaMonsters is released
-riots against the draft occur
-
1972-it is revealed that nixon ordered the robbery of the watergate hotel
-King Kong vs. Ebirah premiers to a flop ut in later years it will(film)
-anti-nixon protests swarm major cities after he announcees his intent to continue the war in vietnam
-Nixon refuses to do a "war on drugs" program
-Godzilla Vs Redmoon is a hit in theaters
-woodstock '72
-8/72-The mahabad republic which is the kurdish areas of Iraq and small parts of turkey declares independence
-10/12/72-China is admitted to the UN on the condision that Taiwan is recognized
-11/72-Nixon wins by 1 electoral vote against Eugene McCarthy in the most corrupt election in history
1973-people are protesting against nixon
-Bermuda asks to join the USA and is accepted. It is given de facto state status with senators and representatives but it will be given actual statehood in a fancy bicentennial ceremony
-the USSR lands a man on the moon
-The No New Prohibition movement appears
1974-the No New prohibition movement becomes more popular
-3/4/74-Nixon's vice president, Gerald ford is arrested on corruption charges and Spiro Agnew assumes the presidency
-7/12/74-Islamic militants take power in Saudi Arabia
-7/19/74-in order to ensure nothing like what Nixon did is possible, President Agnew signs into law
1975-President Agnew begins a slow process of moving troops out of vietnam
-English is declared the official language of america with no exceptions
-President Agnew is nearly impeached several times for corruption
-Punk Folk music bursts on the scene in the USA
-7/4/75-the USA converts to metric
1976-President Agnew signs several laws into action which help to stop the deindustrialization as his last acts
-Godzilla Vs Death Ghidorah is released(film)
-Avro Arrow plane tests suceed
-the first virtual reality systems appear
-Walter Mondale before the campaign takes classes to improve his assertiveness and charisma
-the first hemp shops open in the more cosmopolitan cities
-President Agnew begins to slowly bribe vietnam into nuetrality with promises of investment and aid
-2/3/76-the USA leaves vietnam and plans are made for investment.
-6/7/76-The Narcotics reform act passed which legalizes marijuana and decriminalizes all other drugs
-7/4/76-Bermuda and Puerto Rico recive statehood in pomp and ceremoney admist the bicentennial
-9/3/76-an irish radical flies a small propellor plane into big ben
-11/76-the Carter-Mondale ticket beats Ford in a landslide
-11/24-76-President Carter negotiates a peace treaty between Isreal and egypt,jordan,iraq and lebadon. Provisions for slowly giving palestine autonomy and later independence by the end of the 20th century.
-12/3/76-Godzilla vs. Hitodah released(film)
1977-Commonwealth Aerospace agency(CASA) founded with Canada,Britain
-the arab oil emargo is reduced in its scope and argentina,brazil and chile slowly start to recover
-the televangelists collapse after major scandals
-Apple II
-1/13/77-the European Alliance is formed with Britain,Belgium,denmark,West Germany,Italy,netherlands,france and ireland
-2/3/77-President Jimmy Carter is assasinated by a christian bible thumper militiaman who was paid by Jerry Falwell by the name of Zebadiah Jones
-2/5/77-1/9/78-the Jones Trial is constantly obsfucated and it nearly lasts a year
-6/8/77-President Mondale opens up relations and trrade with Vietnam and Cuba in an attempt to help detente
-8/1/77-The South American Community founded as a free trade area
1978-Cuba and vietnam cancel their alliances with the USSR/China and begin to enjoy a status as nuetrals who are bribed with HEAVY investment and trade bribes to stay out of the cold war
-beginning of second cold warafter USA coaxes Cuba/vietnam out of the commie orbit
-Argentina begins to experiance higher than normal levels of economic growth
-cheap plastics appears which will prevent the tropical wood boom
-3-D films become popular
-Godzilla Vs. The Devil which is a joint US/Japanese production between Toho and UPA Productions premiers as a hit(film)
-An alarming rise in the occurrence of penile and cervical cancer in Americans leads to the discovery of a new variant of papomilla virus. This sexually transmitted virus can be passed on even during protected sex, and causes particularly aggressive and resistant tumours.
-4/1/78-1979 Pat Robertson, speaking on the Christian Broadcasting Network, says that papomilla is God's punishment for promiscuity. The frantic
reproduction of cancer cells in defiance of the commandments of the body
reflects the frantic fornication of human beings in defiance of God's
commandments. He makes great mileage out of the public education
campaign, noting that even secular doctors and Godless Hollywood are
recommending a return to Christian morality (much to the irritation of
the actress, a committed atheist).
-8/12/78-the equal rights amendment passed
-10/3/78-Saddam Hussein attempts a coup but is executed for treason
1979-William Proxmire drops dead
-Richard Simmons hires a gym and starts a combination of preaching, aerobic exercise, and diet cookery called "Holy Fire". The classes are extremely popular, attracting both Christians bored with traditional services and the non-religious who are concerned about their health. The Christian Broadcasting Network starts screening his sermons and many mainstream preachers take up his message. John Hagee loses 50 kilograms in a Holy Fire program and wheels that amount of lard onto the stage in a little red wagon during his sermon. "For those that seek a miracle from God, I am that miracle. I have cast off the flabby carapace of the Devil and I feel the power of God flowing through me!" The TV actress's cancer metastasises and she becomes a born-again Christian. After several Holy Fire sermons combined with traditional treatment, the cancer goes into remission. This "miracle" proves extremely impressive.
-Godzilla vs. Gigamoth released(film)
-the USSR begins some economic reforms
-An Apple employee convinces his superiors to buy the rights to VisiCalc
-4/1/79-Thomas Jefferson's face is destroyed by a meteor
-5/6/79-Jimmy Carter face begins to be carved out of mount rushmore to replace the destroyed face of Thomas Jefferson
-8/79-the first shipping rockets are introduces
1980-China and the USSR nearly go to war
-AIDS is discovered by the government and President Mondale begins a program of quarentine camps and public awareness in a campaign to stop STDs(think some of the more extreme measures like internemnt camp.
-A survey finds that religious belief and church attendance in the
US has increased significantly in the Protestant churches
-a near relative of Tesla gives his notebooks full of data to the USA governemnt
-the negative income tax act is passed by congress
-By the shadow of his wings by Robert Heinlen is a popular science fiction noval
-7/8/80-Godzilla 3-D premiers in the movie theaters
-9/15/80-the great riots
-11/80-the democratic candidates, Walter Mondale and John Glenn sweep into office in an FDR style landslide over Ronald Reagan
-11/5/80-Institute for Venereal Cancer announces the
discovery of a papomilla-specific viricide. This drug will prevent
infection by the papomilla virus in healthy subjects, and will render
papomilla cases non-infectious. This drug will also cure all symptoms of the virus.
-12/1/80-the Majarist nation of arabia is founded when Basra, Arabia,Yemen unite
-12/22/80-the southern 1/3 of majarist arabia declares itself as the kingdom of arabia under king Ibn Saud
Straha,
I think that the Kurdish and Shi'a-Iraqi secession revolts aren't causing enough waves. Esp. as at least one Kurdish party was backed by the USSR and a full-blown insurrection would hurt Turkey, a NATO member. Those two events happening around the same time would jolt the Mideast MASSIVELY.
If you want Carter assassinated, it could come from the Camp David Peace Accords. Sadat was killed for his role in that; perhaps an Arab radical can off Carter too. You don't need to invent some kind of ultra-right-wing "Christian" terrorist outfit.
I agree; John Hagee needs to drop a few pounds.
I think that the Kurdish and Shi'a-Iraqi secession revolts aren't causing enough waves. Esp. as at least one Kurdish party was backed by the USSR and a full-blown insurrection would hurt Turkey, a NATO member. Those two events happening around the same time would jolt the Mideast MASSIVELY.
If you want Carter assassinated, it could come from the Camp David Peace Accords. Sadat was killed for his role in that; perhaps an Arab radical can off Carter too. You don't need to invent some kind of ultra-right-wing "Christian" terrorist outfit.
I agree; John Hagee needs to drop a few pounds.
I never got putting movie releases into political TLs...
Also, Ford doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would get charged with corruption, he was a pretty honest guy (which is why he went down in history as a bad president, in all likelyhood). Also, you have Ford arrested and then Agnew becomes president. huh? Ford was VP at the time in your TL.
Also, Ford doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would get charged with corruption, he was a pretty honest guy (which is why he went down in history as a bad president, in all likelyhood). Also, you have Ford arrested and then Agnew becomes president. huh? Ford was VP at the time in your TL.
gianluca790
Banned
excuse me?
Liberals always overreact to people trying to take advantage of them.
Christian Conservatives are what Social Liberals become after being bushwhacked by the harsh lessons of consensus reality. This is what happened after the breakup of the Soviet Union. It is also what happened after Tiennanmen Square and the Bush-Clinton-Bush years. History tends to swing the opposite way every generation, which is why we have a Crusade against the terrorist espousing Islamic Fundamentalist Arab Nationalism right now.
Liberals always overreact to people trying to take advantage of them.
Christian Conservatives are what Social Liberals become after being bushwhacked by the harsh lessons of consensus reality. This is what happened after the breakup of the Soviet Union. It is also what happened after Tiennanmen Square and the Bush-Clinton-Bush years. History tends to swing the opposite way every generation, which is why we have a Crusade against the terrorist espousing Islamic Fundamentalist Arab Nationalism right now.
I don´t get you. Are you saying that the reality of christian conservatives is more real than the reality of social liberals.