Soviets win Cold War
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If people can unite Germany in the 12th century then i think theirs away to have the soviets win the cold war. The one that would have the biggest effect would be the soviets getting the bomb first. Maybe have FDR say no so some of the scientest approch the russians and are accepted? This could give the USSSR a led in the nuclear race and allow them to capture more German scientest if the use the bomb on German armies.
Xen
Banned
It would have to be something in the immediate aftermath of World War II, beginning of the Cold War era. Perhaps Italy votes on a Communist government, the Greek Civil War turns out to favor the Communists there, Charles De Gualle is killed in 1945 and a Socialist government takes power in elections there, eventually going Communist. Sometime in the late 40s early 50s a Second Spanish Civil War ousts Franco and reinstates the Republicans, same with Portugal. The French, Spanish and Portugese colonies become Communist as well at independence in the 1950s.
When North Korea invades the South in 1950, the US has lost intrest and has too few allies to really care and lets the North take complete control, as long as Japan remains untouched. Chinese troops with Soviet air support invade Taiwan uniting all of China. The Soviets now have considerable influence. The United States forms an alliance with Britain, West Germany, Denmark, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands and Belgium.
As the years pass the US begins to view its roll as the western leader as a burdern and withdrawals from the alliance in the mid 60s in favor of isolationism. Britain steps up and fills the abandoned roll, expanding the alliance to include countries in the Pacific as well, most notably Australia, New Zealand and Japan. The alliance eventually falls apart as Britain cant afford to keep the roll of world leader.
When North Korea invades the South in 1950, the US has lost intrest and has too few allies to really care and lets the North take complete control, as long as Japan remains untouched. Chinese troops with Soviet air support invade Taiwan uniting all of China. The Soviets now have considerable influence. The United States forms an alliance with Britain, West Germany, Denmark, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands and Belgium.
As the years pass the US begins to view its roll as the western leader as a burdern and withdrawals from the alliance in the mid 60s in favor of isolationism. Britain steps up and fills the abandoned roll, expanding the alliance to include countries in the Pacific as well, most notably Australia, New Zealand and Japan. The alliance eventually falls apart as Britain cant afford to keep the roll of world leader.
How about in the 1970s after the US is war weary and despondent post-VW, and the Reds launch their massive armoured invasion of Western Europe a la RED STORM RISING/TEAM YANKEE etc and just overrun the underequipped, low morale US and NATO forces in Germany who are also hamstrung by US and British political reluctance to utilise nuclear weapons ? At the same time, Socialist govts in most continental Western European countries, fearful of nuclear war, agree to cessation of hostilities, accept the forceful importation of Communism, and hand Moscow a fait accompli. Communism reigns supreme in Europe, enabling the Soviets to also have a greater hand in facilitating their continued influence elsewhere, and the US, Britain and remaining Western allies are then put well and truly on the back foot thruout the world.
well, it won't be Cold War anymore. IMHO, Cold War is Cold War, as long as:
1) Is carried in symbolical (ideolgical, economical, political and so on) sphere
2) Military actions are lead only between "third-line-countries" (for example Vietnam, Chile, Kuba, Korea, Nicaragua and so on.)
1) Is carried in symbolical (ideolgical, economical, political and so on) sphere
2) Military actions are lead only between "third-line-countries" (for example Vietnam, Chile, Kuba, Korea, Nicaragua and so on.)
I don't know if this would let them WIN the cold war, but at least fare far better.
The Soviet Union's economy was, of course, a command economy led by a series of "5-Year Plans." Most of the time, the focus of these plans was the development of heavy industry to the exclusion of just about everything else. The Soviets didn't seem to have much of a clue that you can't just keep doing that without some economic repercussions. The problem was that they had essentially no formal education in economics. Education on economics was tainted by communist propaganda as well as the Soviet foreign policy of outdoing its Cold War rival, the United States, in terms of military production (hence, heavy industry was emphasized). In later years, every 5-year communist party Congress led an announcement that stated that the previous 5-year plan had carried out its projections, even when it did not. This was simply for the purposes of propagandist grand-standing, such that no one outside the inner circle of the party could judge the Soviet Union as weak in any respect.
So my solution is simple: have Soviet scholars attend universities outside of the Soviet union, as a kind of cultural exchange. They should do it in a country with a strong background in economics. Probably the best would be Switzerland. It's a neutral state, so there would be little fear by the KGB of being spied on by a Swiss student in Moscow. If enough of the communist party executives get a decent economic education, there could be gradual reworking of Soviet 5-year plans into more realistic molds. This would allow the USSR to survive the Cold War longer, although I'd guess that it would turn more into a China.
As I recall, during détente, there were some exchanges like this but they never really amounted to much, perhaps because the communist party chiefs of the time were already well entrenched and it was too late to change much.
The Soviet Union's economy was, of course, a command economy led by a series of "5-Year Plans." Most of the time, the focus of these plans was the development of heavy industry to the exclusion of just about everything else. The Soviets didn't seem to have much of a clue that you can't just keep doing that without some economic repercussions. The problem was that they had essentially no formal education in economics. Education on economics was tainted by communist propaganda as well as the Soviet foreign policy of outdoing its Cold War rival, the United States, in terms of military production (hence, heavy industry was emphasized). In later years, every 5-year communist party Congress led an announcement that stated that the previous 5-year plan had carried out its projections, even when it did not. This was simply for the purposes of propagandist grand-standing, such that no one outside the inner circle of the party could judge the Soviet Union as weak in any respect.
So my solution is simple: have Soviet scholars attend universities outside of the Soviet union, as a kind of cultural exchange. They should do it in a country with a strong background in economics. Probably the best would be Switzerland. It's a neutral state, so there would be little fear by the KGB of being spied on by a Swiss student in Moscow. If enough of the communist party executives get a decent economic education, there could be gradual reworking of Soviet 5-year plans into more realistic molds. This would allow the USSR to survive the Cold War longer, although I'd guess that it would turn more into a China.
As I recall, during détente, there were some exchanges like this but they never really amounted to much, perhaps because the communist party chiefs of the time were already well entrenched and it was too late to change much.
I don't think it's so much a matter of what the USSR could do, it's more what the US will or won't do. The best bet the Soviets have to win is to have the US essentially forfeit... maybe extreme isolationism can break out in the US after WW2 for some reason....
Well, there's no magic bullet, short of an ASB, but a few things could be helpful.
1) Get rid of Mao. He was more a nationalist Chinese leader than a Soviet puppet, and likely wouldn't help no matter what.
2) Break Wall Street. Have the USA overspend on the military during the 1950's or something.
3) Reform the USSR. Remember, if it's going to rule the world, people have to LIKE it.
1) Get rid of Mao. He was more a nationalist Chinese leader than a Soviet puppet, and likely wouldn't help no matter what.
2) Break Wall Street. Have the USA overspend on the military during the 1950's or something.
3) Reform the USSR. Remember, if it's going to rule the world, people have to LIKE it.
Gstbschef
Banned
After more than ten years, it can be stated: It's not ASB, nope!
You are naive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4
In Addition, some the later "Dissidents" of Eastern bloc have studied in the West. Of course, it financed the KGB.
OTL:
...It is also obvious that by using such strategy [these operations require], they are therefore clearly involving the best trained communist intelligence personnel that is capable of achieving any kind of desired results.
The common signs that such people are active in these kind of infiltration and subversion operations, as they are at the same time aggressively spreading the deception about the "genuine collapse of communism", are as follows:
1) All such people have had [or still have] one time or another contacts, jobs and or financial support from the present "former" communist regimes of Eastern Europe and Russia.
2) Such agents are connected to various known communists, through their businesses and organizations, their connection is not presented as a bad thing, it is shown as that the communists were forgiven their past crimes against the people, and that the people should just forget justice and forgive the still not penitent communist criminals...
The protection from public justice for the former communist hardliners by the new "democratic" regimes is just another sign how such regimes are only fronts for the communists and their security services.
3) The common sign is also the official biography of such agents. In many cases it is very short, never includes the important information where such people come from, who were their parents during the openly communist era, whether these people were able to study on prominent communist colleges and universities, whether they have received any degree in law, science, theology and philosophy, any kind of post in such fields during the communist era etc.
4) Common sign is also when these people promote the collapse of communism as genuine, as they never support, and in fact actively oppose, any kind of genuine investigation of the crimes of communism and subsequent full and true course of justice.
5) The institutions that are created by the Eastern European [communist] espionage are always very well connected in the West, through the communist agents of influence already in place. Their contacts involve any sphere of interest, including most of all the defense industry, government and intelligence agencies, national security and foreign [and also domestic] policy think tanks, and educational and religious centers and organizations. The supplied deception to such western entities is always part of the communist military strategy, it serves the communist goals only.
6) Such agents speak foreign languages very well, a sign that they were trained by foreign teachers [for that purpose recruited agents], they are always fully concentrated and very well behaved, they are trained to be the most charming personalities so to divert any kind of suspicion about their true tasks while they operate in the enemy territory.
The most common sign is these people are very knowledgeable about [for example] American life and system of government, their English allows them to explain in detail various aspects of what they are experts in, they also know exactly how to avoid any kind of personal discussions about themselves or their cover story is always prepared....
7) Ordinary people in any communist country have never had access to any good higher education, and people who present themselves as dissidents cannot have such good education period. The communist regimes would NEVER allowed that to happen. To be accepted to study any kind of strategic sphere of interest, on the college level, you simply had to be a communist cadre or already recruited communist agent, or a potential candidate for recruitment - there is NO exception !
8) Such people, based on their age [which in some cases they purposely lie about to make them look younger and to cover up the fact that they were able to get college degrees during the openly communist era], their English and also their expert knowledge tells us that they had to study college during the communist era, as English language studies in such substantial volumes were only offered at the college levels. So for that matter these agents had to also take mandatory [every college] course of Marxism-Leninism and pass exams, they had to know the ideology very well.
This kind of communist ideological indoctrination was part of every curriculum on every level of education, but at the college level the tests were taken most seriously and who didn't pass them, he or she was not allowed to continue to study - period.
9) It is a golden rule for every communist agent: "An agent who is not able
to gain a full confidence and trust inside the enemy territory, is not usable."
10) People whose official biography is "very short", who don't ever truly answer questions about their families and what was their status and position in the communist society during the openly communist era, such people must not be trusted from the beginning !
Their names could be code names used only for the operation, they can always be transferred to another directorate, under another name and legend, and they are most certainly being used for another part of the communist strategy, in entirely different field, their cover legend is carefully amended, their true background is always fully protected.
None of such agents like to take pictures of themselves, specially by the enemy, as their cover could be blown in case they are used under different name elsewhere.
11) These agents of influence and espionage officers also travel abroad a lot, to various international conferences, religious and public gatherings and so forth, they often give speeches, mostly, but not limited to, in perfect English, they are always on their best behavior as they are the protectors of the Perestroika fraud for the communists.
(Analytical description from 2005)
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I do it all the time in Twilight Struggle.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I'm not sure it's possible with Stalin alive from 1945-1953. If I were in charge of the USSR, I wouldn't have blockaded Berlin, nor would I have sought harsh reprisals against Germany. I'd have tried the "hearts and minds" approach. This would have helped public opinion in West Germany and a more relaxed approach to border controls would have ultimately allowed greater infiltration of the west. Being less repressive might keep Hungary and Czechoslovakia in line. Yugoslavia and Albania less likely to go their own way.
Then, I wouldn't go squandering money on pointless contests. Why waste money on nuclear weapons? Throw everything into the space race, get satellites in orbit and build orbital platforms with flechette devices. Far cheaper to maintain and with none of that pesky fallout problem. Wouldn't need to send missiles to Cuba then.
Having problems feeding the people? Vast underground hydroponic farms. Also less likely to disrupt the food supply in the possible event of orbital strike. With Siberian oil and gas powering the way, the USSR wouldn't be dependent on the USA for grain.
Grossly simplistic but being a more open society rather than a traditional Russian cipher would go a long way.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I'm not sure it's possible with Stalin alive from 1945-1953. If I were in charge of the USSR, I wouldn't have blockaded Berlin, nor would I have sought harsh reprisals against Germany. I'd have tried the "hearts and minds" approach. This would have helped public opinion in West Germany and a more relaxed approach to border controls would have ultimately allowed greater infiltration of the west. Being less repressive might keep Hungary and Czechoslovakia in line. Yugoslavia and Albania less likely to go their own way.
Then, I wouldn't go squandering money on pointless contests. Why waste money on nuclear weapons? Throw everything into the space race, get satellites in orbit and build orbital platforms with flechette devices. Far cheaper to maintain and with none of that pesky fallout problem. Wouldn't need to send missiles to Cuba then.
Having problems feeding the people? Vast underground hydroponic farms. Also less likely to disrupt the food supply in the possible event of orbital strike. With Siberian oil and gas powering the way, the USSR wouldn't be dependent on the USA for grain.
Grossly simplistic but being a more open society rather than a traditional Russian cipher would go a long way.
Gstbschef
Banned
God help us.
Talk about Necro'ing!
They want to keep this topic at the end. "Completed and the resolved!"
Yet it is a crucial issue, given the current political developments in the world.
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Gstbschef
Banned
Other facts about how the Soviet Union weakened the West:
Active measures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures
Organized crime
http://www.amazon.com/Red-Cocaine-Drugging-America-West/dp/1899798048
Active measures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures
Organized crime
http://www.amazon.com/Red-Cocaine-Drugging-America-West/dp/1899798048
Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
This is an alternate history site, not a conspiracy theory site. Here, we say "What if the Soviet Union did not collapse in 1991?", not "The Soviet Union is actually lying secretly in wait to destroy us all"
Since all you've done here is post conspiracy theories, you're banned.
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