Grey Wolf
Donor
From another board which I am banned from, lol - it seemed an interesting post and I was wondering what people here thought. I post both the link and the text, because there are some horrible pop ups in play there !
http://pub165.ezboard.com/fwarships1discussionboardsfrm18.showMessage?topicID=3609.topic
A pre WW1 Thought…
Posted By: miketr Registered User
Posts: 1506
Posted At: (1/8/04 1:58 pm)
I have been reading the following book “The Arming of Europe and the Making of the First World War, by David G Herrmann” and it got me thinking again on something I wounder about from time to time. What if the Germans decide to start WW1 sooner? What if in the wake of the Russian Nippon War Germany wants to deal with France and try to prevent the growing UK-French alliance with force of arms? The German Government during the Morocco Crisis threatened war a great deal but had no real plans to do just that. What if the Germans goal was to push France till either it would have no choice but to declare war or failing that Germany declares war themselves?
A couple of points to consider.
1) As in 1914 the official German war plan for the west is the Schlieffen Plan; however, its creator is still around. Also the 1905 version is different in a number of ways than the 1914 version.
A) The goal of the 1905 is the destruction of the French army in the field and the turning movement is much shallower. Its to go just far west enough to get behind the French army and then turn hard South and East to roll up the French Army.
B) The invasion of Belgium of course is there but the Germans are to limit themselves to moving largely south of the Meuse.
C) The Germans in 1905 were to commit 26 Corps and 20 Reserve Divisions to the attack all in the front lines. This is the bulk of the German army, as Germany did not feel Russia would be in any shape to do anything with having to deal with its internal problems. Also the German Reserve units were to be put into the line. Lastly Germany could expect Italian and Hapsburg aid against France. Not sure how much aid from the Hapsburgs but I would not be surprised if they didn’t send something west.
D) The French 1905 war plan was plan XV and it was defensive in nature unlike plan XVII. However the French Army is to concentrate between Verdun and the Swiss boarder. With only 4 divisions of Cavalry north of Verdun and even then they are to be tight on the boarder. The French expect the Germans to come right at them in line of Nancy-Toul.
2) As noted above I really doubt that Russia would get involved in any way in this war to start with. It has far to many internal problems. They have stripped their western military districts of their best troops and equipment and sent it all east.
3) The Anglo-French Entente is very new so I doubt the British were in any war ready or had plans for to send troops to France at this time.
4) The French army would have to stand alone against the first attack of the nearly combined strength of the central powers. The French army in 1905 has the famous French 75 in production but its deployment is not wide spread. Also in all other ways the French artillery is critically weaker than the Germans. The Germans have a 50% edge in total field batteries and the French have next to no medium and heavy guns, IE 105mm and 150mm guns. Also the French plan calls for 21 Corps as noted above to face the Germans with the French reserve divisions to NOT be used in the front line at all.
So as I see it the French are facing the wrong way, with 33% less troops than the Germans and this is Germany without any aid from its allies. Also the Germans look to hold the edge in artillery.
Does anyone think the French could stop the German attack? What type of terms would the Germans look for if they did win a quick war?
Michael
-------
Reposted here by Grey Wolf
http://pub165.ezboard.com/fwarships1discussionboardsfrm18.showMessage?topicID=3609.topic
A pre WW1 Thought…
Posted By: miketr Registered User
Posts: 1506
Posted At: (1/8/04 1:58 pm)
I have been reading the following book “The Arming of Europe and the Making of the First World War, by David G Herrmann” and it got me thinking again on something I wounder about from time to time. What if the Germans decide to start WW1 sooner? What if in the wake of the Russian Nippon War Germany wants to deal with France and try to prevent the growing UK-French alliance with force of arms? The German Government during the Morocco Crisis threatened war a great deal but had no real plans to do just that. What if the Germans goal was to push France till either it would have no choice but to declare war or failing that Germany declares war themselves?
A couple of points to consider.
1) As in 1914 the official German war plan for the west is the Schlieffen Plan; however, its creator is still around. Also the 1905 version is different in a number of ways than the 1914 version.
A) The goal of the 1905 is the destruction of the French army in the field and the turning movement is much shallower. Its to go just far west enough to get behind the French army and then turn hard South and East to roll up the French Army.
B) The invasion of Belgium of course is there but the Germans are to limit themselves to moving largely south of the Meuse.
C) The Germans in 1905 were to commit 26 Corps and 20 Reserve Divisions to the attack all in the front lines. This is the bulk of the German army, as Germany did not feel Russia would be in any shape to do anything with having to deal with its internal problems. Also the German Reserve units were to be put into the line. Lastly Germany could expect Italian and Hapsburg aid against France. Not sure how much aid from the Hapsburgs but I would not be surprised if they didn’t send something west.
D) The French 1905 war plan was plan XV and it was defensive in nature unlike plan XVII. However the French Army is to concentrate between Verdun and the Swiss boarder. With only 4 divisions of Cavalry north of Verdun and even then they are to be tight on the boarder. The French expect the Germans to come right at them in line of Nancy-Toul.
2) As noted above I really doubt that Russia would get involved in any way in this war to start with. It has far to many internal problems. They have stripped their western military districts of their best troops and equipment and sent it all east.
3) The Anglo-French Entente is very new so I doubt the British were in any war ready or had plans for to send troops to France at this time.
4) The French army would have to stand alone against the first attack of the nearly combined strength of the central powers. The French army in 1905 has the famous French 75 in production but its deployment is not wide spread. Also in all other ways the French artillery is critically weaker than the Germans. The Germans have a 50% edge in total field batteries and the French have next to no medium and heavy guns, IE 105mm and 150mm guns. Also the French plan calls for 21 Corps as noted above to face the Germans with the French reserve divisions to NOT be used in the front line at all.
So as I see it the French are facing the wrong way, with 33% less troops than the Germans and this is Germany without any aid from its allies. Also the Germans look to hold the edge in artillery.
Does anyone think the French could stop the German attack? What type of terms would the Germans look for if they did win a quick war?
Michael
-------
Reposted here by Grey Wolf