The Hohenstaufen Dream

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Faeelin

Banned
Now, Henry VI managed to grab Sicily and did send wealth north of the alps,
and he's probably the best person to unify germany. So let's give him 15
more years, and say Adolf of Cologne dies around 1193. He was the key
opponent of Henry's proposal to make succession hereditary, so Frederick II
is the first hereditary emperor of the Reich. (And lo, there was much
rejoicing).

Meanwhile, Henry's German army in the Holy Land has taken at least beirut as
in OTL, and probably more. (I don't think he could get jerusalem, though.)
So there's probably another crusade there, seeing as how the Queen needs a husband, as does her daughter.

All this means that Frederick II is the Holy Roman Emperor, overlord of John
King of England, King of Jerusalem, King of Sicily, etc.

And if he clashes with Phillip, then a reverse Bouvines sees the French swearing homage to the Hohenstaufen Emperor.

Where Byzantium plays in is interesting. 1204 in the exact form isn't
likely, but Henry extorted money from Byzantium. Perhaps he'll play
kingmaker and put a puppet on the byzantine throne, or fail.

And you thought Freddy's ego OTL was huge.

Okay, thoughts?
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Happy New Year Scott...one t or 2 ?

I haven't a fluffy on the thread tho, lol

Grey Wolf
 
I shall revive this.


Could you make a pOD on this it would make an excellent timeline and would completly change the world as we know it.:)
 

Eurofed

Banned
Now, Henry VI managed to grab Sicily and did send wealth north of the alps, and he's probably the best person to unify germany.

It goes much better than that. He was the best person to unify Germany, Italy, the Low Countries, and Bohemia-Moravia into a centralized empire state that would have most of the demographic-economic strongholds of Middle Ages Europe under its thumb, with neo-Roman/Carolingian imperial ideology as its glue.

So let's give him 15
more years, and say Adolf of Cologne dies around 1193. He was the key
opponent of Henry's proposal to make succession hereditary, so Frederick IIis the first hereditary emperor of the Reich. (And lo, there was much
rejoicing).

Even better, there is no interregnum and Welf civil war to undo all the centralization gains made by Barbarossa and Henry. By his untimely death, Henry had all but brought the German princes and Italian city-states under his thumb. He can live to raise Frederick to be a German-Italian emperor that happens to be the King of Sicily rather than the other way around, he won't neglect the rest of empire for Sicily and he can put his considerable talents at building up on the accomplishments of his father and grandfather rather having to start back from square two or three. By the time Frederick hands over the empire to his son, the HRE-Sicily combo would have experienced unrelenting drive to centralization for a century, it would be quite advanced on the path of the other Western monarchies.

Meanwhile, Henry's German army in the Holy Land has taken at least beirut as in OTL, and probably more. (I don't think he could get jerusalem, though.) So there's probably another crusade there, seeing as how the Queen needs a husband, as does her daughter.

True, but I think that Jerusalem would be well within his grasp in the end. Too many resources on the side of the HRE.

All this means that Frederick II is the Holy Roman Emperor, overlord of John King of England, King of Jerusalem, King of Sicily, etc.

All quite otherwise true, but are we sure that John would end up paying vassalage ? Nonetheless, England is one of the least likely places in Europe to stay under a HRE hegemony, for strategic reasons.

And if he clashes with Phillip, then a reverse Bouvines sees the French swearing homage to the Hohenstaufen Emperor.

Or alternatively, the Hohenstaufen and the Angevins gang up on Capetingian France and carve it out like a pig, reversing the OTL outcome.

Where Byzantium plays in is interesting. 1204 in the exact form isn't
likely, but Henry extorted money from Byzantium. Perhaps he'll play
kingmaker and put a puppet on the byzantine throne, or fail.

A puppet on the Byzantine throne looks like the most likely option. Of course, it could end up being a rejected transplant like OTL, but religious butterflies (see below) could make Greek elites less hostile to such a puppet. The 1204 irreversible gutting of the ERE would be avoided, and if a strong HRE supports its ally/puppet against the Muslims, and the new dynasty is moderately talented, we could look to the revitalization of the BE, and holding on to Anatolia, perhaps even undoing Manzikert.

You forgot the Pope. With such a strong HRE, the Papacy would surely lose the power struggle with the Empire. The theocratic evolution of the Catholic Church would be surely undone. Depending on how well the Emperor manages to take control of the Pope and the cardinals, he could turn them into puppets, or they would escape and seek aid with France or the Angevins. The HRE would raise an Antipope that would entrench his supremacy on HRE lands. This would cause an early Great Schism. Either way, the Church would become much cowed towards the secular authorities, much like the Anglican/Orthodox/Gallican model. This would change a lot about the Reformation, and would make lasting reunification with the East much easier (which would substantially diminish antagonism between the HRE and ERE).

And you thought Freddy's ego OTL was huge.

ITTL he would have good reason for pride, however. He would end up being an Augustus to his father's Caesar, co-founder of an imperial superpower that would change the world (ie. the colonization patterns would be all different)
 
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