Apparently, Monty was Churchill's 2nd choice to assume command of British and Empire forces in North Africa in late 1942, with the 1st nomination actually being Gen W.H.E Gott, who however was killed in a planecrash. The rest as they say is hist. However, WI Gott hadn't been killed in the planecarsh, and gone on to command 8th Army ? How would he have fared against Rommel, and would he have attained the same level of strategic rank and influence as Monty would ? And Monty himself- what would've happened to him, where could he have been sent without being appointed C-in-C of 8th Army ?
Alternate Monty? W.H.E. Gott
- Thread starter Melvin Loh
- Start date
Does anyone know what his tactics would've been? This may be the answer we need to the "Win the War in '44" thread.
As for Monty being kept as a subordinate, could that lead to slightly better relations between the British Army and the Americans, especially Patton?
As for Monty being kept as a subordinate, could that lead to slightly better relations between the British Army and the Americans, especially Patton?
Coriolanus said:
Patton rubbed everyone the wrong way, including his fellow American generals, not just Monty. So replace Monty with Gott & I'd expect that the bitching would still go on. Afterall, it was Patton who went around slapping soldiers & that had nothing to do with Monty. Likewise, Ike relieving Patton of command due to that incident, which again had nothing to do with Monty. And Bradley didn't overly like Patton either. Patton, though, is at his best when he's working for someone else as he has boundaries which he'll keep within. But left to his own devices & he seems to be self-destructive.
Defeat for the 8th Army at the battle of Alam Halfa and Rommel would be in Cairo by the end of September 1942. By mid October the Suez canal would be under the control of the Axis and Rommel wouldn't have enough troops or supplies to go any further. In November Operation Torch would occur but the landings would be at Casablanca only. Vichy French resistance would be even stronger and allied victory in North Africa would delayed by between six and twelve months. At this rate D-Day would be in 1945.
Why the defeat?
One major factor in Rommel failing to get further than El-Alamein was that he could no longer out-flank the British to the south- the large depression (don't remember the name off hand) south of the 8th Army was impassable to tanks and heavy vehicles, only a frontal assault was viable. Why do you think that Gott would be less effective in this defensive battle that Monty?Mark Ford said:
Is this some kind of ATL Patton we are talking about here, DMA? Can't seem to fit him into my perception of OTL Patton, well, perhaps the unfortunate slapping...DMA said:
I don't think Gott would do! Monty's primary job was to reestablish morale in the 8th, and that, eventhough I absolutely detest the little primadonna, he did splendidly.
Replace him with Slim, and the war would be over in no time, though!
Best regards!
- Bluenote.
Mr.Bluenote said:
Well maybe we're talking about two different Pattons, but the one I'm well aware of was his own worst enemy. Few other generals liked him, although most respected his fighting abilities. But then again Patton was a borderline nutcase at the same time. Having said that, maybe the saying is true that the line between a genius & a lunatic is very thin.
Mr.Bluenote said:
I never said Gott would be better than Monty. Personally I think Monty was better for all sorts of reasons. What I said was, the infighting that took place between Patton & Monty would probably be repeated between Patton & Gott.
Mr.Bluenote said:Replace him with Slim, and the war would be over in no time, though!
Now this suggestion has a lot of merit & one I can agree with.
Paulo the Limey said:
The battle of Alam Halfa wasn't a frontal assault, it was an attack on the southern (open) flank, very much like the battle of Gazala which was an Axis victory.The British plan for Alam Halfa was identical to the Gazala plan but Montgomery's arrival resulted in the plan being thrown out with no time for a new plan. Hence the replacement plan could be summed up in four words, don't attack don't retreat. The commander of the 7th Armoured division disobayed and tried to impliment the old plan and attacked Rommel's open flank, he lost a third of his tanks. If Gott had been in command, the old plan would have been implimented and losses could have extended to most of the Army.