Mary, Queen of England?

Arch-Angel · Feb 16, 2004

What would be the effects if Mary managed to hold on to the throne of England or regained it during one of the many plots. Elizabeth's execution would be almost certain and a child between her and Philip II wouldn't hurt either. The child would then be heir to Spain and England, making for quite the power.

Matthew Craw · Feb 16, 2004

Arch-Angel said:
What would be the effects if Mary managed to hold on to the throne of England or regained it during one of the many plots. Elizabeth's execution would be almost certain and a child between her and Philip II wouldn't hurt either. The child would then be heir to Spain and England, making for quite the power.

Are we talking about Bloody Mary (who was queen until she died) or Mary Queen of Scots (who never had teh English throne to begin with)?

A child of Mary and Phillip would have been intersting. Assuming he was still a minor when his mother died there would have been some sort of crisis over the Regency, with the English VERY reluctant to give in to Phillip's claims. This could lead to an English civil war comparable to the French wars of religion.

Flocculencio · Feb 16, 2004

An English civil war might be a bit far fetched. A lot of the english catholics saw themselves as english first and Catholic second and weren't really eager to be dominated by the King of Spain.
Possibly we'd have an England that was more tolerant of religious differences with an accomodation being reached between the Catholics and the Protestants.

Matthew Craw · Feb 16, 2004

Flocculencio said:
An English civil war might be a bit far fetched. A lot of the english catholics saw themselves as english first and Catholic second and weren't really eager to be dominated by the King of Spain.
Possibly we'd have an England that was more tolerant of religious differences with an accomodation being reached between the Catholics and the Protestants.

Except that the focus of loyalty for English Catholics wouldn't be Phillip, but his son. There would also be a substantial legitimist party loyal to the King/his regent, so those rising up would tend to be the more extreme protestants, giving catholics little choice but to rally to the regency.

Arch-Angel · Feb 16, 2004

So Mary (Queen of Scots) and Philip, actually have a son and he survives long enough to become a viable ruler one day. What happens? How long will the new English-Spanish Empire go on? What about the colonies of the time?

Grimm Reaper · Feb 16, 2004

First, having established the precedent with Elizabeth, Mary and any son she has are probably not long for this world. Second, given Mary and Philip II's ages at the time, is childbirth really likely? Mary was already past 40! Most importantly of all:

MARY ALREADY HAD A CHILD CALLED JAMES VI OF SCOTLAND, LATER JAMES I OF ENGLAND.

HE GETS FIRST CLAIM ON ANYTHING!

bill_bruno · Feb 16, 2004

Different Mary

Arch-Angel said:
So Mary (Queen of Scots) and Philip, actually have a son and he survives long enough to become a viable ruler one day. What happens? How long will the new English-Spanish Empire go on? What about the colonies of the time?

Philip was married to Mary Tudor, not Mary, Queen of Scots. I've recently been thinking about a POD that could put Mary Tudor securely on the throne. OTL, Henry VIII was almost killed in a jousting accident in 1524. If you kill him off, Mary (then 8 yrs. old), would have no competition for the throne (after a regency) and would presumably marry young enough to have children. Although, in that TL, her husband would most likely be Reginald de la Pole rather than Philip of Spain.

Arch-Angel · Feb 17, 2004

Damn, sorry about that. Well assume Marry Tudor did marry Philip and did have a kid.

horticultureandmelodrama · Apr 15, 2005

Arch-Angel said:
Damn, sorry about that. Well assume Marry Tudor did marry Philip and did have a kid.

If Mary and Philip had a son then he would be heir to England, Spain, Portugal,Naples, Sicily, Brazil, East Indies and vaste terrirories in Africa. Phillip would have his son in Spain where his main inheritance lay and England would at best be a outlying province of the Spanish Empire.

AuroraBorealis · Apr 15, 2005

Grimm Reaper said:
First, having established the precedent with Elizabeth, Mary and any son she has are probably not long for this world. Second, given Mary and Philip II's ages at the time, is childbirth really likely? Mary was already past 40! Most importantly of all:

MARY ALREADY HAD A CHILD CALLED JAMES VI OF SCOTLAND, LATER JAMES I OF ENGLAND.

HE GETS FIRST CLAIM ON ANYTHING!

I think your getting the two Mary's mixed up again.....
Mary Tudor and Mary Stuart
these are separate people....