Wernher Von Braun captured by the Soviets:no Apollo moon landing ever

Dunash

Banned
Wernher Von Braun surrendered with most of his team to an American private. But a large part of his rocket scientists were also caught by the Russians. WI the entire team, their plans & V2 parts had been caught by the Russians?

Without Operation Paperclip, the Russians would have had a huge start. Would it have been sufficient so that there is virtually no US space program ever: no Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, moon landing, space lab or shuttle? Or that NASA would be at least 10 years behind the Russians?

Or would all the stops behind Yankee ingenuity and spies be pulled out, and they'd manage even without Von Braun's team?
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
I was under the impression that Von Braun ran one of two competing space programmes under Eisenhower, the other being run by the Navy and being the most favoured until all their major launches blew up one year. I would expect that without von Braun the navy project would simply persevere through disaster until it succeeded

Grey Wolf
 
I'm afraid it's the old syndrome by which you tend to believe that one man is behind some breakthrough and that his absence would make all the difference. As has been said about the atom bomb, there was only one secret behind that- that it worked. Once the cat was let out of the bag at Hiroshima, it was just a matter of time before others caught up. Once the V weapons landed on London, then it was obvious that a massive technological effort would be made in America. Even without America's own tradition of rocket science, the US would simply have thrown men and money at the problem till was tackled.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Werner von Braun - Tom Lehrer

Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun,
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience.
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown,
"Ha, Nazi, Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.

Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

Some have harsh words for this man of renown,
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude,
Like the widows and cripples in old London town,
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.

You too may be a big hero,
Once you've learned to count backwards to zero.
"In German oder English I know how to count down,
Und I'm learning Chinese!" says Wernher von Braun.
 
Apollo Landing delayed one year

Von Braun was very helpful but the notion that there could never be an effective American space program without him is downright silly.
 
Dunash said:
The question is: if ALL the German rocket technicians & rocket technology of 1945 had been caught by the Russians, would it have given them such a lead, that they would have been the first to the Moon ie the Americans would never have have started or bothered to finish Apollo?
http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/history/vonBraun/moving.html

And Robert Goddard and his staff and all V-2s captured by the British and Americans equal nothing?

The Space Race is a symptom of the Cold War, and the US was behind when that started. I think it likely that the US would sit get into space, with or without German rocket technicians. Perhaps the Soviets would be the first on the Moon, the space program would certainly strain their national economy, perhaps doing them in earlier. Once started the Apollo Project would be completed since it is a source of national pride. The US may do the Soviets one better by being the first on Mars.
 
Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun,
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience.
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown,
"Ha, Nazi, Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.

Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

Some have harsh words for this man of renown,
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude,
Like the widows and cripples in old London town,
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.

You too may be a big hero,
Once you've learned to count backwards to zero.
"In German oder English I know how to count down,
Und I'm learning Chinese!" says Wernher von Braun.

WHAT IS THE TUNE FOR THIS?

I've seen the lyrics written elsewhere, and made up my own tune in my head for it, but I'd like to know how it goes. Is there a site somewhere with a sound file?
 
wasn't there a comic book called Ministry of Space on this POD?

The PoD there was the British capturing Von Braun etc. and wiping out Peenemunde with bombers to prevent the US and USSR getting its secrets.

By the sixties the British are on Mars while the USA is just struggling into space and the USSR has got nowhere. But everyone is wondering where the British funding for the space programme came from, which is the main plot of the story interspersed with lots of flashbacks of British space achievements.

The art work is brilliant, but the story is a bit ridiculous IMO.
 

Keenir

Banned
Wernher Von Braun surrendered with most of his team to an American private. But a large part of his rocket scientists were also caught by the Russians. WI the entire team, their plans & V2 parts had been caught by the Russians?

Without Operation Paperclip,

Paperclip involved a lot more than just Von Braun's team....it was other Germans and Austrians, and even the Japanese.
 
When the Werner von Braun biographical movie came out, titled "I Aim at the Stars" Mort Sahl commented that the subtitle should be "But Sometimes I Hit London"
 
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