Teddy Roosevelt lives 8 more years

In 1919 Teddy Roosevelt was gearing up for another run at the White House. A split 8 years earlier between he and then President Taft had divided the Republican party and given Woodrow Wilson the White House. It was almost universally accepted that TR would be the Republican nominee and that Warren Harding would be his VP. But TR died. Harding went on to be the Republican nominee, to win the Presidency, to run the most corrupt and flawed administration in American history, and to set into motion the policies which some feel led to the Great Depression.

In this ATL Roosevelt does not die in 1919. Instead let's give him 8 more years of life. So if he wins 2 terms he dies just before the end of the 2nd. Keep in mind, Harding died in 1923.

What happens in a world with TR living longer?
 

Glen

Moderator
In 1919 Teddy Roosevelt was gearing up for another run at the White House. A split 8 years earlier between he and then President Taft had divided the Republican party and given Woodrow Wilson the White House. It was almost universally accepted that TR would be the Republican nominee and that Warren Harding would be his VP. But TR died. Harding went on to be the Republican nominee, to win the Presidency, to run the most corrupt and flawed administration in American history, and to set into motion the policies which some feel led to the Great Depression.

In this ATL Roosevelt does not die in 1919. Instead let's give him 8 more years of life. So if he wins 2 terms he dies just before the end of the 2nd. Keep in mind, Harding died in 1923.

What happens in a world with TR living longer?


Is this really so?

BTW, keeping TR out of the Amazon might help buy him those 8 extra years.

I wonder how TR would deal with the Soviets....

And what would he do vis-a-vie the League of Nations? While he wasn't a fan in the least of the 14 points, I don't know that he'd be content with no US presence in the LoN. He might cajole Congress into joining, especially if he got some minor concessions for reform out of the LoN.
 
In 1919 Teddy Roosevelt was gearing up for another run at the White House. A split 8 years earlier between he and then President Taft had divided the Republican party and given Woodrow Wilson the White House. It was almost universally accepted that TR would be the Republican nominee and that Warren Harding would be his VP. But TR died. Harding went on to be the Republican nominee, to win the Presidency, to run the most corrupt and flawed administration in American history, and to set into motion the policies which some feel led to the Great Depression.

In this ATL Roosevelt does not die in 1919. Instead let's give him 8 more years of life. So if he wins 2 terms he dies just before the end of the 2nd. Keep in mind, Harding died in 1923.

What happens in a world with TR living longer?

Let's assume all of the above happened--and by the way, I agree with the proposition that TR not going to the Amazon basin would have wound up extending his life until well into the 1920s if not beyond.

Anyhow, dealing with the easy one first: suppose TR had chosen Harding as his VP, and suppose TR died in early 1927. After the great outpouring of respect from the nation and the world (I suspect even the deposed Kaiser Wilhelm II would have found a way to attend the funeral; he held TR in extremely high regard), the presidency devolves to the Secretary of State since at the time there was no mechanism for filling a vacant vice-presidency prior to an election. Now, although they didn't care much for each other personnaly, TR and Charles Evans Hughes could work together, and they respected each other's intellects and capabilities. On that basis, Hughes becomes president in early 1927, perhaps appointing someone near the end of his career like Philander Knox to the Secretaryship [?] of State.

The 1928 election might be a bit of a challenge. I'm not sure Hughes, having tried once in 1916, would be welcome in 1928 as the nominee--although you'd have to presume he'd have learned something from his near-miss. Seems to me that TR would have had a successor waiting in the wings, and for that successor, I'd suggest his Secretary of the Treasury, Charles G. Dawes (Coolidge's VP in OTL). Dawes was a real mover/shaker in the financial world but his base was Chicago, not Wall Street, so that would make him more acceptable to the heartland. Also, he wasn't afraid to speak his mind rather forthrightly (when questioned about his bureau's accounting practices during the Great War in OTL, he responded, "Hell and Maria, we were trying to win a war, not keep a set of books!").

That said, I would suggest that Dawes would have been alarmed at the outrageous buying stocks on margin in the early 1920s, and would have recommended a series of measures to TR to bring that to heel before something really ugly happened. That would have led to the creation of the Securities and Exchange Administration, which would have oversight on stock trading, among other things. Thus, what would have happened at the end of October 1929--early in Dawes' tenure in the White House--would have been no worse than a middle-weight Panic of earlier days.

It's true that TR had little time for the Fourteen Points and less for Woodrow Wilson--and it's equally true that he propounded the concept of an international cooperative body first. Thus I suggest he'd have cajoled the Senate into buying into the treaty with modifications, and at the same time would have used his international prestige to revise the charter to include his modifications--much to the chagrin, on both counts, of Woodrow Wilson.

TR and the Soviets...now that's sticky. Still, he was pragmatic enough to realize that you can't ignore the largest (physically) nation on the globe. Could be he could have mustered enough respect to get some kind of a working relationship early on, followed by actual recognition in the 1920s. Maybe the prospect of dealing with TR rather than the unknown Harding or Cox in OTL would have been enough to prevent Trotsky from being marginalized?

While TR himself drank only occasionally (wine once in a while and a scotch on rare occasions), I doubt he'd have been a fan of Prohibition at all; probably he'd have called it a waste of federal resources, and gone about securing repeal. That wouldn't have won many friends in the Bible Belt but he wouldn't have carried those states anyhow. Repeal Prohibition by, say, 1923 or 1924 and there goes the rise of a lot of gangsters to the notoriety we know: Al Capone, for example, would have likely remained a relatively small-time hood in New York rather than the overlord of Chicago.

Further butterflies: no Hoover in 1928 or 1932; perhaps an earlier conversion of Wendell Willkie to the GOP; lower tariff walls that didn't exacerbate the economic crisis of the late 1920s/early 1930s...
 
October revolution was in 1917, so OTL Teddy must've known about it. After all, didn't the US send some troops to Russia?
 
Is this really so?

BTW, keeping TR out of the Amazon might help buy him those 8 extra years.

I understand one of Teddy Roosevelt's sons I think Quentin was killed in WWI and that TR was not the same after that. Along with keeping TR out of the Amazon and away from the health problems he suffered due to that trip, have his son return home from WWI unharmed.

It should have been possible for Teddy Roosevelt to have lived another 8 years and perhaps even longer. He was only 60 when he died in 1919, he would have been 61 that Fall.

If TR had lived and been elected in 1920 I think the USA would have joined the League Of Nations. TR was an activist President and I think he would have wanted the USA to be activist in the world, especially the world of post WWI. I don't think TR would have supported Prohibition, I think he would have felt it was a silly waste of time and effort and might have foreseen that it would be unpopular, violated, and some of the crime problems it caused in OTL. Not sure how a TR Presidency in the 1920's would have effected the economy and the Great Depression. It would probably have had some effect probably delaying or preventing it.
 
Anyhow, dealing with the easy one first: suppose TR had chosen Harding as his VP, and suppose TR died in early 1927. After the great outpouring of respect from the nation and the world (I suspect even the deposed Kaiser Wilhelm II would have found a way to attend the funeral; he held TR in extremely high regard), the presidency devolves to the Secretary of State since at the time there was no mechanism for filling a vacant vice-presidency prior to an election. Now, although they didn't care much for each other personnaly, TR and Charles Evans Hughes could work together, and they respected each other's intellects and capabilities. On that basis, Hughes becomes president in early 1927, perhaps appointing someone near the end of his career like Philander Knox to the Secretaryship [?] of State.

Since Harding died in 1923, TR would have picked a new running mate in 1924, so if he does die in 1927, then his new VP takes over.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
I've got to agree with the pro-League of Nations position that Mists put forward. TR seemed to have been converted to a more diplomatic frame of mind after his first four years, and he would have had unique relationship with the rest of the leaders of Europe, akin to Churchill's after World War II.

Now...this may sound like a stupid question...but are we saying he ran on the Republican ticket or the Progressive? This is probably something that was hashed out before that I didn't see.
 
Since Harding died in 1923, TR would have picked a new running mate in 1924, so if he does die in 1927, then his new VP takes over.

I realized just after I posted that there would be a new VP in 1924--but that presumes Harding's death in 1923. That, from what I've read, stemmed from a heart attack presumably precipitated by stress from the Teapot Dome and other assorted scandals at the cabinet and sub-cabinet levels.

Now, if Harding is the VP, the pre-existing medical condition is unchanged, but the trigger is absent: the Ohio Gang doesn't have nearly the access to power tha they did in OTL, given the VP's lack of much of anything to do. So...either there would be no scandals or very minor scandals at worst; probably the former since we're really talking about a bunch of small-timers. That leaves us free to posit Harding's death somewhat later from the same cause: let's say 1926, perhaps after addressing the National Press Club's banquet, he's stricken on the way home. He's driven to the nearest major hospital (did Walter Reed exist then?) with a police escort but the doctors are unable to save him. Hence, the vice-presidency becomes vacant in 1926, paving the way for a brief Hughes presidency upon TR's death (likely made somewhat premature by the after-effects of tropical travels absent the Amazon) in 1927.

Consider this: had TR not traveled at all in what is now considered the Third World, he might well have lived into the 1930s or beyond, given his health while president.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Given a...70 year lifespan, that would put Teddy Roosevelt on his deathbed in the mid-30s. Just in time to help his cousin get into the White House...maybe.
 
Given a...70 year lifespan, that would put Teddy Roosevelt on his deathbed in the mid-30s. Just in time to help his cousin get into the White House...maybe.

Afraid not: if he lived to be 70, he would have died in 1928/1929 (before October). Also, I'd question whether he'd have had a lot of time for his distant relative. Moreover, had he lived, there'd be a question as to whether there would be a need or a push for his relative to occupy the White House.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
I thought he was born in '62? Maybe my math is wrong. It was never my strong suit. So...FDR doesn't get elected. Now, are we saying that he ran on a Republican ticket, or Progressive? I keep trying to get a handle on this thing, and it's a big change if he runs with an established party or if a third party manages to snag the What House in the 20s.

I wrote a story a long time ago, a fake chapter from a book entitled "Warrior of the World" about his 3rd term in office from 1912 to 1916. This is really bringing back alot of that stuff.

So...Republican or Progressive?
 
I thought he was born in '62? Maybe my math is wrong. It was never my strong suit. So...FDR doesn't get elected. Now, are we saying that he ran on a Republican ticket, or Progressive? I keep trying to get a handle on this thing, and it's a big change if he runs with an established party or if a third party manages to snag the What House in the 20s.

I wrote a story a long time ago, a fake chapter from a book entitled "Warrior of the World" about his 3rd term in office from 1912 to 1916. This is really bringing back alot of that stuff.

So...Republican or Progressive?

First things first: he was born in late October 1858. Second, no question he runs as a Republican: there is widely quoted a letter from TR in which he says (I paraphrase) that barring the unforeseen, he doesn't see much significant opposition to his nomination by the GOP in 1920--and from what I can piece together, things were indeed moving in that direction until his untimely death. (Indeed, as early as 1916, he was back in the GOP fold; the bolt of 1912 was pretty much forgiven.)

Funny you should talk about a third term: one of my pet scenarios is a second TR administration from 1913 to 1921 (with Elihu Root instead of Taft from 1909 to 1913 since Taft is already a Supreme Court justice); in that timeline, TR averts a general war in Europe by mediating/arbitrating the Austro-Serbian crisis of 1914, brought about by the unfortunate event at Sarajevo. Upon his retirement in 1921, TR is succeeded by his Secretary of the Treasury, Charles G. Dawes, who (among other things) takes no-nonsense action to bring to heel buying stocks on margin and other activities that have inflated a Wall Street bubble alarmingly...
 
And how would this effect Turtledoves American Empire series?

As far as I noticed, he always kept natrual deaths in his 191-TL ...
 

MacCaulay

Banned
LaSalle: I like the premise. We'll have to shoot notes back and forth sometime. Did Roosevelt have any picks for posts in 1920? Secretary of Agriculture, possibly? An Iowa boy like me always wants to root for any timeline that puts Henry Wallace in a good position.
And who, from Roosevelt's first administration, was still in shape to come back?

Though on further thought...Wallace would be 32. He was already an editor of Wallace's, and he'd been an up and comer with hybrid corn breeding by then, but perhaps 32 is to young. He was still a Republican at that point. He didn't change his party affiliation until after a few years in the FDR administration.

Thoughts?
 
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