Justinian Double Blind

What if Justinian hadn't launched his successful Persian campaign under Belisarius? If the Romans hadn't conquered Mesopotomia, might they have invaded some of the western states? The Vandals were weak around this time, the Romans could have taken them out. Would the Romans have still conquered Arabia? How would the Empire have fared without the excellent Arab light cavalry in the army?

Umm. I find it hard to see any way to hold onto the western empire at this point; or that the byzantines could even conquer much of it. Maybe, maybe, the boot of italy. But that's it.

You have to remember that It was the Treasure of Persia that allowed the Byzanitines to rebuild North Africa. Without this the Byzanitines would have been on a thousand year downslope.

Even if Justinian had conquered western territories, the Empire would have lost them again during the Arab wars: it took nearly a century for the fire lit by the Hassanite heresy to burn itsef out, and for much of that time it took most of the Empire's energies. The Arabs even took Egypt for a while, you know.

DuQuense said:

You have to remember that It was the Treasure of Persia that allowed the Byzanitines to rebuild North Africa. Without this the Byzanitines would have been on a thousand year downslope.

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I'd dispute that. It was several centuries before the Empire decided to meet the Moorish threat in North Africa (but, at least the Moors were Orthodox Christians, unlike the Arian Vandals). Though, I'm sure that, without the control of the trade routes, Byzantium wouldn't have been as wealthy and would've found it harder to finance the Moorish Campaigns.

Besides, I'll grant that the campaigns did eliminate a potential threat to the Empire, but, except for their last king (Philip, wasn't it?), the Moorish kings were usually pro-byzantine. I still say that the better choice would've been to support a coup. Though, I will grant that, with a pro-Byzantine Moorish kingdom centered around North Africa as opposed to the anti-Byzantine Moorish kingdom centered in Hispania, the New World wouldn't have been discovered as early. After all, it was the Byzantine's restriction on trade to the Moors (and, of course, Gothica) that prompted them to send out the expeditions.

bm2617 said:

Even if Justinian had conquered western territories, the Empire would have lost them again during the Arab wars: it took nearly a century for the fire lit by the Hassanite heresy to burn itsef out, and for much of that time it took most of the Empire's energies. The Arabs even took Egypt for a while, you know.

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Come on, those Arabs were as assimilated into the Empire as any other people in the Empire. They just happened to have converted to a peculiar monophysite doctrine (which is the only reason they were able to take Egypt, they had the support of the populace for awhile). The majority of the Arab peoples were fairly loyal to the Empire. And most were, of course, Orthodox.

Though its interesting to wonder what it would be like if the Hassanites never got off the ground, or if they were more popular...