The man in the high castle

Tyr · Aug 14, 2004

I've just finished reading this and I am slightly confused.
I'm sure most people here have already read this so erm...-
Is this set in some sort of parallel world? Does the Japanese trade mission bloke really get transported into our world?
What exactly is the deal with the author? Is he some kind of crazy living between the worlds?

I am just pretty confused by it (it doesn't help that I read the last 4 chapters at 2AM...)

valio_98 · Aug 14, 2004

The man in the high castle + the sequel / SPOILERS

Leej said:
...
Is this set in some sort of parallel world?

Yes, with a different history.
Streictlry speaking, this book is not AH but Parallel history.
The OTL world exists too.

Leej said:
...
Does the Japanese trade mission bloke really get transported into our world?

Yes. In the unfinished sequel (PKD wrote 2 or 3 chapters
and they have been published in a collection) the Nazi from
that parallel world discover our world. The book starts with
that - it mentiones that the crack-trans-world-team comes
back bringing... "The Rise and the Fall and of the Third Reich".
Ironic, isn't it.

Leej said:
...
What exactly is the deal with the author? Is he some kind of crazy living between the worlds?

I don't think so, but it was a while since I read it.
He seems just to be a patriot who uses what he can do
best to rise the spirit of his people.

DMS · Aug 15, 2004

If you mean PKD,

"What exactly is the deal with the author? Is he some kind of crazy living between the worlds?"

The answer was probably yes.

Prunesquallor · Aug 17, 2004

I wouldn't especially regard it as AH, more like yet another example of Dick's favourite theme, the nature of reality.

Kaiser · Aug 21, 2004

Hello!

English isn't my native language (and I didn't really properly learn English), therefore I can only write rather simple statements:

"The Man in the High Castle" is set in a world where FDR was murdered in 1933. That is probably the POD of this novel. Germany and Japan won WWII in 1947. The novel is set in the year 1962. The USA are divided into three areas:
1)The PSA (Pacific States of America), a state dominated by the Japanese Empire.
2)The Rocky Mountain States, some kind of a neutral zone.
3)The entire eastern areas of the USA, which are now under controll of the German Reich.

That is the *Oracle-Universe*.

In the Oracle-Universe a mysterious author named Hawthorne Abendsen has written an alternate-history-novel describing a world where Germany and Japan lost WWII.

That is the *Abendsen-Universe*.

In the Oracle-Universe the Nazis have banned Abendsen's novel, but the Japanese are surprisingly more liberal, therefore the Japanese and Americans in the PSA can freely read this novel.

Regarding the Abendsen-Universe: It is not exactly our universe. In the Abendsen-Universe, WWII was completely different, too. Yes, Germany and Japan lost, but the USSR didn't become a superpower, and the two superpowers after the war are the United States and the British Empire.

Two persons from the Oracle-Universe eventually experience a trip into the Abendsen-Universe. Mister Tagomi (the Japanese trade-guy) returns to the Oracle-Universe after only a few minutes. And Julianna Frink probably stays in the Abendsen-Universe. Both persons experience this trip shortly after they questioned the oracle of the I Ging (an ancient Chinese oracle-book and a major theme throughout the novel) and got the same answer, some mysterious text about the "inner truth".
If I remember correctly, Hawthorne Abendsen didn't even know that the universe that he described in his novel truly exists. Julianna talks to him and he doesn't really trust her.

Leo Caesius · Aug 21, 2004

Yes - remember this part?

"Look at this," Joe said. In the living room, he sat on the bed, his small suitcase beside him; he had opened it and brought out a ragged, bent book which showed signs of much handling. He grinned at Juliana. "Come here. You know what somebody says? This man --" He indicated the book. "This is very funny. Sit down." He took hold of her arm, drew her down beside him. "I want to read to you. Suppose they had won. What would it be like? We don't have to worry; this man has done all the thinking for us." Opening the book, Joe began turning pages slowly. "The British Empire would control all Europe. All the Mediterranean. No Italy at all. No Germany, either. Bobbies and those funny little soldiers in tall fur hats, and the king as far as the Volga."

I got a kick out of that.

Kaiser · Aug 21, 2004

Thank you! By the way, what does "A.I.S." mean?

Leo Caesius · Aug 21, 2004

Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria - the AISB, the bogeyman of many a conspiracy theorist here in the US. Originally based upon Adam Weishaupt's at Ingolstadt, the AISB have become a sort of cultural phenomenon.

My father's family is Bavarian, and in 1998 I was inducted into a society which many claim to be an Illuminati splinter group - as it happens, at least one American president ran on a platform that included its abolition. So I thought it would make an appropriate title for the time being.

Kaiser · Aug 22, 2004

Leo Caesius said:
Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria - the AISB, the bogeyman of many a conspiracy theorist here in the US.

That's interesting. They seem to be way more famous in the US than in Germany, because I have never heard of them...
Ah, by the way, could you post the bit where Juliana talks to Hawthorne Abendsen? I have lost my copy of the book and now I'm constantly trying to remember how exactly this debate went along...

Leo Caesius · Aug 22, 2004

There's an e-text of the book available here. The dialogue between the two comes right at the end. It's saved as .RTF format.

Kaiser · Aug 23, 2004

Thank you very much!

Tyr · Sep 9, 2004

Oh I thought it was our world the Jap was transported in due to the highway being a real place in this world built after the war.
I can't remember Julianna going to another world unless as said the author lives between the worlds somehow.

edvader · Sep 9, 2004

Leo and Kaiser: My great grandparents came from Bavaria in 1866. I'm your WAR man if you know what WAR is. Guten Tag , mein herren.

Kaiser · Sep 10, 2004

Leej said:
Oh I thought it was our world the Jap was transported in due to the highway being a real place in this world built after the war.
I can't remember Julianna going to another world unless as said the author lives between the worlds somehow.

About Mister Tagomi: That's an interesting point! I don't know whether PKD used the mentioning of the highway as a hint that Mister Tagomi entered our universe instead of the Abendsen-Universe. Perhaps it was a hint or perhaps the highway was built in the Abendsen-Universe, too. After all, in the Abendsen-Universe the United States won WWII.
By the way, I think I remember that Mister Tagomi experienced hostile looks from US-Americans during his short trip in that universe. Would this be the case in our universe in 1962? And wouldn't someone who sees an East-Asian-looking guy in San Francisco just naturally assume that the guy is probably from San Francisco Chinatown instead of Japan?
About Juliana and Hawthorne Abendsen: Abendsen definitely does not live between the worlds. He didn't even believe that the Abendsen-Universe described in his novel was truly existing. Abendsen just lived in the Oracle-Universe, like all the other protagonists. Juliana vanishes, though... The key-point is that the novel is not chronological. The events in the Pacific States and the events in the Rocky Mountain States start at the same time. But then it's only four days, until Juliana meets Abendsen (last scene written, but not the last scene chronologically), while the events in the PSA go on for at least twenty more days. The majority of the novel takes place after the meeting between Juliana and Abendsen. Juliana wanted to contact her husband Frank, but then we never hear from her again. My guess is that Juliana entered the Abendsen-Universe, just after leaving the house and walking into the night, and stayed there.

Kaiser · Sep 10, 2004

ED(Mister) said:
Leo and Kaiser: My great grandparents came from Bavaria in 1866. I'm your WAR man if you know what WAR is. Guten Tag , mein herren.

Hello! WAR man? What is that supposed to mean?

Tyr · Sep 11, 2004

Tagomi just got hostile looks as he acted like he owned the place. He went into a cafe and demanded white people to give up their seat to him et all as would happen in his world.

Kaiser · Sep 11, 2004

Leej said:
Tagomi just got hostile looks as he acted like he owned the place. He went into a cafe and demanded white people to give up their seat to him et all as would happen in his world.

Ah, thanks for explaining that. I couldn't remember the exact circumstances. But "white people"? Japanese are white, too. I have never understood why East Asians are called "yellow". They are white. It may have something to do with the guys who described the skin of the Mongols (or Mongolians?) as "bronze", just as the Amerindians were described as "copper", but East Asians are definitely white. A pale girl from Japan looks exactly like a pale girl from Germany (regarding the skin, of course, not the eyes or the hair). And a girl from Java just looks like a girl from Greece (skin). "Yellow" is a complete myth. Yellow skin exists in the Simpsons-Universe, but not anywhere else.

Leo Caesius · Sep 11, 2004

Ironically, it was Kaiser Wilhelm II who coined the phrase "die gelbe Gefahr" (the Yellow Peril), IIRC. However, among the Chinese, there is a legend that the ancestor of their race was the Yellow Emperor (Huangdi) and so the symbolism of the color yellow may have arisen there first.

Kaiser · Sep 11, 2004

Leo Caesius said:
Ironically, it was Kaiser Wilhelm II who coined the phrase "die gelbe Gefahr" (the Yellow Peril), IIRC.

Well, I didn't name myself after that idiot.

As you most probably know the term Kaiser just means Emperor, Imperator, Tenno, Huangdi, et cetera. It can refer to any Imperator. But I think the formulation "die gelbe Gefahr" was created way earlier, in the Holy Roman Empire, refering to the Mongolensturm. And I don't even understand why the Mongols (is it Mongols or Mongolians?) were refered to as "bronze-skinned", "yellow" is even more mysterious. Did some Mongols look bronze-skinned? I have seen modern Mongols and they didn't look bronze-skinned.

Leo Caesius said:
However, among the Chinese, there is a legend that the ancestor of their race was the Yellow Emperor (Huangdi) and so the symbolism of the color yellow may have arisen there first.

Hmmm, I don't really see the connection... And is that refering to Qin Shi Huangdi 2230 years ago or the myths about China at a time 7000 years ago?

Leo Caesius · Sep 11, 2004

Kaiser said:
Hmmm, I don't really see the connection... And is that refering to Qin Shi Huangdi 2230 years ago or the myths about China at a time 7000 years ago?

The mythical Yellow Emperor. The term huangdi later came to mean "emperors" after Qin Shi who adopted it for himself. The color yellow (huang) remains auspicious in China and was associated with the royalty, much as the color purple was in the Mediterranean (note that the Phoenicians - the Purple People - had a monopoly on the production of the royal purple dye). Hence it may be that the association of the color yellow with the Chinese began not as a racial epithet at all but along the lines of the association of purple with the Phoenicians.