Gunpowder not invented
- Thread starter tom
- Start date
I dunno. That charcoal burns is pretty obvious, and both sulphur and saltpetre when added to fire cause different but quite interesting effects. The way that humans like to play around with fire, mixing the three looks quite inevitable. 'course, you'll still need to get the proportions right, but once you notice it goes poof, that's just a matter of time.
Any decently competent alchemist ought to come up with the base formula given enough time. The rest is the kind of patient legwork of trial-and-error improvement that nobody writes books about.
Any decently competent alchemist ought to come up with the base formula given enough time. The rest is the kind of patient legwork of trial-and-error improvement that nobody writes books about.
carlton_bach said:
I agree. Shamans were always looking for substances to light up their shows, and with charcoal all around campfires, "gunpowder" was inevitable. I'd argue the real invention was the understanding of the explosively reactive properties of these substances when ignited in a projectile or tube.
It is a odd enough combination, along with using what had been a parlor/'magic' trick for larger (destructive purposes) could have been delayed for hundreds of years with some probability. Or it could have occurred hundreds of years earlier just about as well.
If it was discovered later, it probably also been adopted faster. As it was it took a long time have a major effect.
If it was discovered later, it probably also been adopted faster. As it was it took a long time have a major effect.
hmm.
you know, I find this true for a lot of "inventions" or discoveries. Really stupid stuff, like cows milk. I mean...who was the first neanderthal to squeeze a cow's teat? "Hey, I know! I'll squeeze this and drink whatever comes out!"
you know, I find this true for a lot of "inventions" or discoveries. Really stupid stuff, like cows milk. I mean...who was the first neanderthal to squeeze a cow's teat? "Hey, I know! I'll squeeze this and drink whatever comes out!"
That joke has always annoyed me.north_star said:
Early man already has the example of women. Then, they probably observed calves suckling. Its not that hard of a concept.
DominusNovus said:
yeah, bad example. But I agree with the general gist of his argument. There are a lot of things that one has to wonder how we ever got started doing that. Something as basic as bread, for example. It doesn't occur naturally. Animals don't make it, so we couldn't have learned by observation. How did we figure it out?
Gunpowder was actually invented in China by chance during the Tang dynasty around 8th century AD. Chinese alchemists were obsessed with the prolonging of life through experiments with various elixir. They accidentally discovered that by mixing certain chemicals, it will produce explosion and gunpowder. The chinese were quick to use this new invention in military. However, most were used in firecrackers.
If gunpowder was not invented, our world would still be rather primitive.
If gunpowder was not invented, our world would still be rather primitive.
yhjow said:
yeah, the Sung Dynasty actually had a cannon which they used in a few battles and then abandoned a few decades before the Mongol invasion. I have often wondered what might have happened if the idea had been developed rather than being abandoned.
robertp6165 said:
Easy.
Step I: grass seed taste good. It is quote possible that early hominids harvested grass seeds, and we get our grain from there, eventually. They can also be collected and transported. Now ghyou have handfuls of grass seeds lying around.
Step II: fire make food taste better. This was quite likely a chance discovery, but since people probably ate around their source of warmth and protection it's not far-fetched. Someone is bound to have tried cooking grass seeds eventually, and that works. You get tasty mush that's easier on your teeth.
Step III: Gnorts drop mush in fire. Some dunderhead is liable to have dropped some grain mush into the fire and found that if you recover it in time, it turns into a flat cake that's sticky and tasty. Or it was folks fooling around. Hunter-gatherers seem to have lots of time on their hands and usually eat well, so playing with food is quite conceivable.
Step IV: not make bread burn. Someone figures out it's better to keep the bread away from direct fire so it doesn't blacken. If ceramic is already around that should take about an hour, but more likely the invention is old and it started with heated rocks.
Step V: mush go bad. Someone makes bread mush and forgets about it. The next day ist goes bad. Food not being that plentiful right now, the people decide to bake it anyway, and Voila, light and fluffy bread. Hey, let's do that again...
Bread is fairly obvious once you break it down into components. Many inventions are. The finished product just looks intimidatingly complex because it took centuries or millennia to perfect.