NapoleonXIV
Banned
What POD will give us a functioning and peaceful world government by 2000? Or is there any? This has probably been covered before but darned if I remember seeing it
Challenge: World Government
- Thread starter NapoleonXIV
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Hmm, difficult to say. Roman victory in the Teutoberger Wald perhaps, leading to a conquest of Germany and a significant reduction in the length of border that needs guarding by the Roman Legions, and hte elimination of a very tough opponent, freeing up soldiers to destroy the Sassinids, then on to India, China, et al.
Of course there is the Alexander theory, i.e. Alexander living, establishing some kind of mixed society, conquering the Mediterranean, ad infinitum. Only slightly less plausible than the Teutoberger Wald PoD.
Islamic conquest of Constantinople in the 700s and a victory at Tours perhaps.
Of course there is the Alexander theory, i.e. Alexander living, establishing some kind of mixed society, conquering the Mediterranean, ad infinitum. Only slightly less plausible than the Teutoberger Wald PoD.
Islamic conquest of Constantinople in the 700s and a victory at Tours perhaps.
The POD cannot be too far away in the past (difficulties in communications prevented really large empires).
A victory by Napoleon could maybe do the trick: remember, however, that France had a lot of economical difficulties in the first half of the XIX century.
What about this: Napoleon keeps Louisiana, and wins the European wars (no Russian adventure for now). Nappy helps the USA in the 1812 war, and gets loved there too. Ten years later, he is offered the crown of the NA Empire...
The alternative could be a Nazi victory, and it's not a timeline I'd like
A victory by Napoleon could maybe do the trick: remember, however, that France had a lot of economical difficulties in the first half of the XIX century.
What about this: Napoleon keeps Louisiana, and wins the European wars (no Russian adventure for now). Nappy helps the USA in the 1812 war, and gets loved there too. Ten years later, he is offered the crown of the NA Empire...
The alternative could be a Nazi victory, and it's not a timeline I'd like
Hey Naploeon XIV your namesake could be Emperor of Earth. 
The Brits or Wilhelmine Germans could also do it.
The Brits or Wilhelmine Germans could also do it.
Faeelin
Banned
LordKalvan said:
Well, the POD could involve a scientific revolution.
Well, yes. But Bonaparte had a lot to do with those, as did the blockade.
I prefer invading Britian, because he then gets the British Empire as well. He can then send out troops to subdue the Spanish Empire, if he still removes the Bourbons.
Hmm. Latin America versus a United Europe in 1810?
The US will become an Empire the day Mecca is Christian. But Louisiana, quebec, and the rest of canada... America is surrounded in a French "wall of brass".....
Disturbing. Maybe Mahan was right:
"Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. "
The alternative could be a Nazi victory, and it's not a timeline I'd like[/QUOTE]
Faeelin
Banned
fortyseven said:Hey Naploeon XIV your namesake could be Emperor of Earth.
The Brits or Wilhelmine Germans could also do it.
How could Wilhelmine Germany possibly do it?
Britain, OTOH.... Well, they could certainly get lots of it.
Let's remember that during the Napoleonic wars, Britain sent troops to places such as the Dutch East Indies and Argentina, as well as Santo Domingo. Remember also that America's growth was set back by a generation because of the revolution.
Let's assume that even though there's no American Revolution, the French intervene in, oh, Holland or the Polish partitions, and are broke. French Revolution happens on schedule. Colonial America grabs Cuba, Louisiana, maybe Mexico. Last is pushing it, although it might be within the realm of possibility if we have British support. Argentina falls in 1806, thereabouts.
The Brits take the Indies from the Batavian Republic, as well as South Africa and Ceylon. India goes down as OTL.
On the continent, the Prussians get partitioned by Emperor *Napoleon. Russia is still invaded, same results there. But at *Vienna, the UK gets Cuba, Mexico, Louisiana, Argentina, South Africa, India, the Indies, etc. The British blow the hell out of Constantinople, as they almost did in 1807, and in the chaos the Ottoman Empire collapses. To forestall a the French, the British occupy the Dardenelles.
On the continent, the lack of a viable state to form a Rhenish buffer means that the Kingdom of Westphalia gets the Rhineland and is transferred to a Hanoverian puppet, who inherits the British throne around 1860. More ships sailing about near china means the Chinese treaty ports are annexed by Britain, which ultimately results in the entire nation falling to Britain. Japan *might* be doable.
So the year, dear readers, is 1870. Britain owns Southern South America, North America, Australia, India, northwest germany, UK, south africa, china, the Indies, Zanzibar, and the rest of southern africa.
That's just this side of ASB, and still not all the world.
Faeelin said:
The problem is not so much in conquering, but rather in holding, consolidating and unifying. It goes a bit too quickly in your approach, there must be some period of consolidation (you still need an industrial revolution, to go forward with your conquests; and you need also a population basis: probably some anticipation in the discovery of anti-septics and better child birth methods would fuel a population explosion in the 1850s)
NapoleonXIV
Banned
Strange, that all the scenarios have to do with conquest.
WI the impulse that created the League of Nations and then the UN was present somehow in 1815 (or maybe it was?? I don't recall any permanent organization that the Council of Vienna set up, was there one?)
WI the impulse that created the League of Nations and then the UN was present somehow in 1815 (or maybe it was?? I don't recall any permanent organization that the Council of Vienna set up, was there one?)
NapoleonXIV said:
The only "permanent" structure foreseen by the Council of Vienna was a guarantee by all the signatories to intervene in case of civil unrest or revolution. Not much to build up into a world government
For those of you that have access to GURPS Alternate Earths...what about their Chinese timeline. POD is in the 15th century as the Chinese continue their naval expeditions instead of becoming isolaionist. They eventually clash with the Portuguse and Spanish, invade and conquer, then continue. Actually, they have achieved some kind of Chinese world empire in the 18th century.
There also is an interesting islamic scientific revolution timeline in their books that might work.
On the other hand, I also like the Napoleon idea. Being German and somewhat biased, I will not favor a Nazis-win-timeline, but it might be something (although not peaceful, I must say) that could work as well.
The British Empire also could be used as starting point, though I have difficulties to think of ways how they get Russia (unless by dynastic marriage, of course). I would definitely rule out military conquest here, unless taking place after substantial scientific progress in the 20th century, perhaps.
There also is an interesting islamic scientific revolution timeline in their books that might work.
On the other hand, I also like the Napoleon idea. Being German and somewhat biased, I will not favor a Nazis-win-timeline, but it might be something (although not peaceful, I must say) that could work as well.
The British Empire also could be used as starting point, though I have difficulties to think of ways how they get Russia (unless by dynastic marriage, of course). I would definitely rule out military conquest here, unless taking place after substantial scientific progress in the 20th century, perhaps.
Faeelin
Banned
sikitu said:
It seems pretty dubious to me. I mean, the Chinese sending thousands of people to take over Spain across vast oceans? Come on.
It might result in an islamic world, but I don't see why it would be a united one.
I can't see the Nazis doing it. America is simply too strong for them, to say nothing of Britain and the UK.
There's always the Franco-English Empire. Long live the Emperor of Gaul?
Faeelin
Banned
LordKalvan said:
I don't see why Bonaparte would have a problem with this. He didn't have much opposition in his reign OTL, and he ruled rather effectively over much of western Europe.
Europe was undergoing an industrial revolution; minus the continental system and Brita'ns blockade, there's no reason it wouldn't happen faster.
A world empire made by conquest won't last especially in more modern times, Napoleon couldn't conquer the world without some pretty big ASBs and holding the world would require the king of the ASBs.
The best way to go for world government I think is with Britain, have the Americans see sense and not revolt and then if things go our way we could quickly be ruling the world. It would require some conquest for a total every inch of land world government though a lot could be done without this.
The best way to go for world government I think is with Britain, have the Americans see sense and not revolt and then if things go our way we could quickly be ruling the world. It would require some conquest for a total every inch of land world government though a lot could be done without this.