GW1 Axis
- Thread starter DuQuense
- Start date
Indeed, I believe the Japanese constitution and government was based on a Prussian model.
Anyhow, it is possible if Germany has something to offer Japan. The Allies offered Japan all of Germanies old Pacific colonies, which she gladly took. What could Germany have offered Japan that was similar to that? Maybe.....Australia and New Zealand? Or Hong Kong and Singapore and Malaya? Who knows, I'm just thinking. What does everyone else think?
Anyhow, it is possible if Germany has something to offer Japan. The Allies offered Japan all of Germanies old Pacific colonies, which she gladly took. What could Germany have offered Japan that was similar to that? Maybe.....Australia and New Zealand? Or Hong Kong and Singapore and Malaya? Who knows, I'm just thinking. What does everyone else think?
What if Germany offered Japan French colonies, as well as a few British ones? The Allies had far more Pacific colonies than Germany; with French Indochina, and others.
This could have some interesting effects. The USA might be distracted by Japanese imperialism in the Pacific much earlier, and that could possibly prevent much (or at least a little) American involvement in Europe. If Japan attacked the US possessions in the Pacific, which it might, and the USA was distracted by a naval war with Japan (would it win this one as easily as the one in WW2? I don't know the real strength of the US Navy in WW1, and nuking Japan wouldn't be an option in 1918.)
Could the USA (and Britain for that matter), distracted by Japan, give Germany a victory over at least France and Russia? If Japan sided with the Central Powers, and the Allies still won, could Japan be utterly defeated like the rest of the Central Powers, with her empire destroyed?
This could have some interesting effects. The USA might be distracted by Japanese imperialism in the Pacific much earlier, and that could possibly prevent much (or at least a little) American involvement in Europe. If Japan attacked the US possessions in the Pacific, which it might, and the USA was distracted by a naval war with Japan (would it win this one as easily as the one in WW2? I don't know the real strength of the US Navy in WW1, and nuking Japan wouldn't be an option in 1918.)
Could the USA (and Britain for that matter), distracted by Japan, give Germany a victory over at least France and Russia? If Japan sided with the Central Powers, and the Allies still won, could Japan be utterly defeated like the rest of the Central Powers, with her empire destroyed?
That was also kinda what I was thinking. (Guess I just forgot to type it. ^_^)
I don't think there's a big need for a German/Japanese treaty prior to World War 1. If Britain never allies with Japan, and Germany offers Japan British and French colonies after the war actually starts, it seems pretty plausible that Japan could side with the Central Powers. Japan wasn't really enemies with Britain or Japan, but Germany and Japan did share the common enemy of Russia.
But, as I said earlier, is it possible that Japan and the USA could get into a naval war in the Pacific? Could this give Germany a victory over France?
I don't think there's a big need for a German/Japanese treaty prior to World War 1. If Britain never allies with Japan, and Germany offers Japan British and French colonies after the war actually starts, it seems pretty plausible that Japan could side with the Central Powers. Japan wasn't really enemies with Britain or Japan, but Germany and Japan did share the common enemy of Russia.
But, as I said earlier, is it possible that Japan and the USA could get into a naval war in the Pacific? Could this give Germany a victory over France?
1898-
May- Dewey is headed to China and stopping over in Pearl, when a cat 5 Cyclone hits Hawaii. Several of his his ships are blown agrond. Between repairing his ships, and helping with releif, Dewey dosen't get to China.
July - USS Maine blows up in Havana Harbour. Spainish/ American war
August- Citing the 1868 Treaty of Freindship Japan invades the Phillipines, Spainish/ Nipponese War
1899-
March- end of Spainish War US Anexxs Cuba, PR. Japan Anexxs the Phillipines.
Both the US & GB are not happy over Japan's actions. GB breaks off talks on a Anglo/Japanese treaty.
1899-1904
Phillipine War. Japan Cruches the Philipino Indedence movement. As this is between Asians & Natives, there is little attention paid to it, in the European/US Press. The Little there is, is mostly Negetive towards Japan.
1905
No Japan/Russian War, with It's Focus on the Pacific, Japan allows the Border Incidents to pass.
1907
Germany looking for a Counter to GB's Naval Supremicy, enters into a Treaty with Japan.
1909
Japanese Battleship fleet visits Germany, while German Ships Visit Japan.
1905-1914
Russia continues to push along the Korean Border, and in the Co-Domumiun of Sakhalin, dispite Japans protests. This leads to tensions and bad feelings on both sides.
1914
Problems between Austria-Hungrey, and Serbia lead to War. when the Crown Prince is Assisinated [I Know-TurtleDove- But changes in Japan/Pacific Butterflies haven't reached the Balkans]
Russia DoWs Germany, Japan DoWs Russia, Germany DoWs France, and Invades Belgium, GB DoWs Germany & AH. ???Whould GB also DoW Japan??? Japan has not DoWed GB or France.
1915
Japanese Troops overrun Sakhalkin, and capture Vladivostok.
1916
Japanese Troops pushing in from the, Sea of Japan, reach the Amur River. Instead of pushing farther they stop and Dig in for Defense.
1917
Russian Revolution, Germany and Russia reach seperate Peace {Brest-Lidlow} Russia & Japan reach a simular peace with Cease fire in Place. Japan now Controls both sides of the Sea of Japan.
1918
11th Hour, 11th day GW1, ends .
May- Dewey is headed to China and stopping over in Pearl, when a cat 5 Cyclone hits Hawaii. Several of his his ships are blown agrond. Between repairing his ships, and helping with releif, Dewey dosen't get to China.
July - USS Maine blows up in Havana Harbour. Spainish/ American war
August- Citing the 1868 Treaty of Freindship Japan invades the Phillipines, Spainish/ Nipponese War
1899-
March- end of Spainish War US Anexxs Cuba, PR. Japan Anexxs the Phillipines.
Both the US & GB are not happy over Japan's actions. GB breaks off talks on a Anglo/Japanese treaty.
1899-1904
Phillipine War. Japan Cruches the Philipino Indedence movement. As this is between Asians & Natives, there is little attention paid to it, in the European/US Press. The Little there is, is mostly Negetive towards Japan.
1905
No Japan/Russian War, with It's Focus on the Pacific, Japan allows the Border Incidents to pass.
1907
Germany looking for a Counter to GB's Naval Supremicy, enters into a Treaty with Japan.
1909
Japanese Battleship fleet visits Germany, while German Ships Visit Japan.
1905-1914
Russia continues to push along the Korean Border, and in the Co-Domumiun of Sakhalin, dispite Japans protests. This leads to tensions and bad feelings on both sides.
1914
Problems between Austria-Hungrey, and Serbia lead to War. when the Crown Prince is Assisinated [I Know-TurtleDove- But changes in Japan/Pacific Butterflies haven't reached the Balkans]
Russia DoWs Germany, Japan DoWs Russia, Germany DoWs France, and Invades Belgium, GB DoWs Germany & AH. ???Whould GB also DoW Japan??? Japan has not DoWed GB or France.
1915
Japanese Troops overrun Sakhalkin, and capture Vladivostok.
1916
Japanese Troops pushing in from the, Sea of Japan, reach the Amur River. Instead of pushing farther they stop and Dig in for Defense.
1917
Russian Revolution, Germany and Russia reach seperate Peace {Brest-Lidlow} Russia & Japan reach a simular peace with Cease fire in Place. Japan now Controls both sides of the Sea of Japan.
1918
11th Hour, 11th day GW1, ends .
David S Poepoe
Banned
Pearl Harbor's entrance wasn't dredged in 1898 to allow the passage of ships into the harbor. Cyclones do not hit Hawaii, but hurricanes do. At the time Dewey and his ships would have been anchored off Honolulu Roads offshore. They would have been able to set sail and avoid the hurricane.
Great Britain and France would declare war upon Japan since it is at war with Russia and an ally of Germany. That should be pretty clear and simple to remember!
Great Britain and France would declare war upon Japan since it is at war with Russia and an ally of Germany. That should be pretty clear and simple to remember!
Japan'e conflict with Russia was worse than "border incidents": Russia had forced Japan to give up claims in Manchuria after the Sino-Japanese war, was threatening the Japanese sphere of influence in Korea with a military buildup on the border, and were moving to establish full control of Manchuria. The Japanese felt if they didn't go to war, the Russians would force them out of north Asia entirely.
Russo-Japanese front
this seems the most plausible outcome of a Japanese and German alliance. Probably Japan would try to stay out of conflict with the UK while pushing into Siberia. I can then see a situation where Japan conquers Siberia and then tries to settle it instead of attacking China in the 1930s as it did in OTL.
this seems the most plausible outcome of a Japanese and German alliance. Probably Japan would try to stay out of conflict with the UK while pushing into Siberia. I can then see a situation where Japan conquers Siberia and then tries to settle it instead of attacking China in the 1930s as it did in OTL.
Great ATL, DQ. I wonder, what's going on during WWI between Japan and the US? Also, what does Japan do to the British and French colonies?
I think it would play out something like this:
After the flurry of war declarations in Europe, Japan takes the opportunity to declare war on Britain and France and seizes their colonies with little resistance before their motherlands' navies can even leave Europe. The isolationist US fails to take action, although popular sentiment rises against the Japanese. When the US enters the war on Britain and France's side, it also declares war on Japan to "liberate" the colonies. It might also want them for itself -- the fact that Japan got the jump on the Philippines 15 years before is still a bit of a sore point.
It's late and I'm off to bed. Does the US win? At what cost? I'll leave the questions for tomorrow or for you guys.
I think it would play out something like this:
After the flurry of war declarations in Europe, Japan takes the opportunity to declare war on Britain and France and seizes their colonies with little resistance before their motherlands' navies can even leave Europe. The isolationist US fails to take action, although popular sentiment rises against the Japanese. When the US enters the war on Britain and France's side, it also declares war on Japan to "liberate" the colonies. It might also want them for itself -- the fact that Japan got the jump on the Philippines 15 years before is still a bit of a sore point.
It's late and I'm off to bed. Does the US win? At what cost? I'll leave the questions for tomorrow or for you guys.
Not Nessacarily
GWII
US & Russia were Allies, Japan & Germany were Allies, US & Russia were at war with Germany, Russia & Japan were not at war.
This is why I asked the Board if they thought in GWI politics if Britian would DoW Japan, if Japan doesn't DoW GB.
If The Japs are more conserned with Russia [ie my 'border incedents'] than in the Pacific Could we have a Phony War were the DoWs were sent but no-ones excally shooting at each other between GB & Japan till after 1917 and the Russian Revolution & US entry.
I don't think it's very plausible. The Germans, after all, were one of the participants in the Triple Intervention of 1895 which the Japanese saw as a massive national humiliation. By contrast the treaty with Britain was seen as the event which wiped out the shame of the coming of the Black Ships, the recognition of Japanese equality.
David S Poepoe
Banned
DuQuense said:
Good Heavens! What sort of grasp of history do you have in regards to the Second World War? The Japanese didn't fight against the Russians primarily since they had been handed them their heads by an earlier 'border incident' by the Russians. The Japanese were afraid for fighting the Russians and the Russians were busy fighting the Germans - not to mention that the Japanese were also spread about fighting the British, Chinese, Dutch and Americans. The Russians cut off communication between the Germans and the Japanese that was sent via Russia.
I suggest to look at the fact that at the outbreak of the Great War France declared war upon Austro-Hungary on the 'charges' that AH cavalry were seen along the Franco-German border. The British did basically the same, tho they and the AH had fairly good relations.
Knowledge that the Japanese were in league with the Germans would probably end up in the termination of naval contracts with the Japanese by the British. Japanese dreadnoughts will be more 'homegrown', since the Germans already are caught up in the dreadnought race with Britain and can't spare the shipyards. Also one would expect that a sizeable Allied naval presence in the Far East to counter any possible German-Japanese naval force.
A fly in the ointment
I've been doing some reading into the subject, and apparently the whole reason the Anglo-Japanese alliance was created was that the British wanted to contain Russian movement in northern China, and negotiations with Germany (the other major power in the region) essentially fizzled (mostly to the German attitude).
So, if these original negotiations succeeded, we would be more likely to see an Anglo-German alliance with Japan opposed or aggressively neutral.
I've been doing some reading into the subject, and apparently the whole reason the Anglo-Japanese alliance was created was that the British wanted to contain Russian movement in northern China, and negotiations with Germany (the other major power in the region) essentially fizzled (mostly to the German attitude).
So, if these original negotiations succeeded, we would be more likely to see an Anglo-German alliance with Japan opposed or aggressively neutral.