Nazi invasion of Southern Ireland

Were there any circumstances under which the Nazis might have tried such a thing?

My assumption is that this would be to the advantage of Britain, any doubts on that?

There would be a supply of Quislings in Eire from the IRA and extreme Republicans but my guess is that they would be a minority. Any further thoghts.

Might such an event have change Irish Politics for the better?

There's the tiny, tiny problem of the lack of a navy on Germany's side. If Operation Sealion was considered unfeasible with a 26 mile crossing, you can certainly write out an invasion of Eire unless Britain has fallen - and I could see Eire being invaded in that case purely to deny it to the USA - unless they unilaterally declare the island under their protection as they did with Iceland.

As for scenarios - unless you can bolster the German naval presence or prevent the destruction of the Italian and French navies by Britain, then you're going to have a hard time working up a TL or anything with this.

Short term:

1) Irish Government is going to scream for British help the second the first jackboot hits the Emerald Isle.
2) There will be British troops coming down from the North and Hurricanes landing in Dublin before you can say 'what ho old chap'
3) German landing in Ireland faces all of the same problems as Sealion except there now multiplied by ten. Example Bf109s are off the board they don't have the range to fly combat missions from France.
4) Some IRA types would have welcomed a German invasion however in practice the smart ones will keep their heads down the ones that don't get shot as traitors or locked up.
5) Irish Western ports become available to allies for duration of the war. Very much a plus point for the British efforts in the North Atlantic.


Long term:

This one is a bit more debatable but assuming Churchill keeps his imperialist tenancies under control and doesn't attempt anything like bringing Ireland back into the Empire...

1) Extra black mark regarding relations between US and Germany, probably not enough to push US to war though.
2) One of the big causes of friction between North & South is removed.
3) If Republican movement has been implicated in any serious way with German invasion then its finished.
4) The troubles never really get going Northern Ireland becomes subject to joint control.

There was no need to do this, as the irish were Pro-german!!!!
They liked everything that is against England. Even today hints of that attitude are to be sensed.

Famous literal appearance of that fact "irish diary! by Nobelprize-winner Heinrich Böll.

Alayta said:

There was no need to do this, as the irish were Pro-german!!!!
They liked everything that is against England. Even today hints of that attitude are to be sensed.

Famous literal appearance of that fact "irish diary! by Nobelprize-winner Heinrich Böll.

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The Irish were "pro-German" only to the extent of it weakening GB, if the Germans actually invaded they would have quickly became anti-German as the Nazis were much worse then the Brits could dream of being.

Irish neutrality was NOT anti British. Irish citizens were allowed to join British armed forces - far from technical neutrality and very pro British. The British and Irish intelligence services cooperated. German service people were interned. British and American ones quietly allowed to go home.

The Irish position is in fact rather complex. I recommend Robert Fisk's book on the subject. De Valera didn't like the Nazis very much but as a good catholic disliked the communists even more. He caused some comments by sending official condolences on the death of Hitler to the German Embassy in Dublin. What is interesting is just how parochial some of the Irish politicians were. When an equivalent of the Home Guard was set up (IIRC), for example, some of them saw it mainly as an amazing opportunity to spread the Irish language.

Republicans join with the British

The Irish had finally, after centuries, got their own nation, and they would not want to see anyone invading. They got what they wanted, although many would like to sever Northern Ireland from the Empire.
I seriously doubt that there would be significant support for Germany, even if the Germans somehow found a way to invade.
They might well ask for some serious gaurantees from Britian before allowing ground troops in--it had only been a relatively short time since they left. I'd expect Churchil to give them rather than allow the Nazi infestation to take root.
Now, find a way to put German forces ashore in 1916, and it could likely be a very different story...

Why invade south if you can invade north. Now calm down, no need for that kind of language and please put away those rotten tomatoes please. Thank you.

How would Germans go about invading northern Ireland? Airborne troops from Norway. It's feasible and was debated. And if it fails they can march to Ireland and be interned instead of POWed in UK.

Irish Invasion..

I share a lot of the scepticism of others. I tend to the view that if German forces had successfully landed and conquered Britain, Eire would have had little option but to sign up to the Axis. If Britain under Halifax had signed a peace treaty with Germany, Eire would have no say in the matter.

The only even remote possibility for a successful German invasion (apart from after Britain has fallen) would be perhaps in April. The successful invasion of Norway starting April 9th 1940 was as much coup de main as landing by force. Now, Eire has a similar population to Norway. Could the Germans, by adroit use of merchant shipping, successfully occupy key ports such as Cork or even parts of Dublin and then land paratroopers to bolster the invasion (this would happen INSTEAD of a Scandinavian campaign rather than as well as) ?

My guess is the Irish Army would be forced into the rural hinterland and, with air support, the Germans would soon be in control. As for the British, remember the BEF is in France at this time with the best of the RAF units also stationed in France. As happened in Norway, the British and French would have insufficient time to react before the Germans had taken control of Eire.

If this happened in April, it would force the British to redeploy units to Ulster and western England and would increase the fear of invasion in the country. With the BEF depleted, the remaining Anglo-French forces cannot even withdraw to Dunkirk and are lost leaving Britain surrounded and weakened with Luftwaffe units able to bomb the west and north of England and drawing key RAF squadrons away from the south and east in the critical summer months.

They had plans to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gr%FCn_%28Ireland%29

The only even remote possibility for a successful German invasion (apart from after Britain has fallen) would be perhaps in April. The successful invasion of Norway starting April 9th 1940 was as much coup de main as landing by force. Now, Eire has a similar population to Norway. Could the Germans, by adroit use of merchant shipping, successfully occupy key ports such as Cork or even parts of Dublin and then land paratroopers to bolster the invasion (this would happen INSTEAD of a Scandinavian campaign rather than as well as) ?

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1. Attacking Eire by sea either involves heading round North or round South throught the channel. With the proposed date the channel is closed since the Germans have not yet seized any French channel ports. Going North with out Norway under German occupation implies passing Scapa Flow and the majority of the Battleline of the RN... perhaps a few merchantmen could sneak past but no supplies or warships will manage to
2. Paratroopers? A few facts: any direct (i.e. practicle) flight path passes over the United Kindom; Ju 52s are not manouverable in comparison with Hurricanes or Spitfires; Bf-109s lack sufficient range to escort the paratroopers into England let alone to Eire. Conclusion: even with a depleted Fighter Command the paratroopers are doomed.

Cockroach said:

1. Attacking Eire by sea either involves heading round North or round South throught the channel. With the proposed date the channel is closed since the Germans have not yet seized any French channel ports. Going North with out Norway under German occupation implies passing Scapa Flow and the majority of the Battleline of the RN... perhaps a few merchantmen could sneak past but no supplies or warships will manage to
2. Paratroopers? A few facts: any direct (i.e. practicle) flight path passes over the United Kindom; Ju 52s are not manouverable in comparison with Hurricanes or Spitfires; Bf-109s lack sufficient range to escort the paratroopers into England let alone to Eire. Conclusion: even with a depleted Fighter Command the paratroopers are doomed.

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Also there were some tanks left in the UK IIRC, they would be shipped to Ireland fairly quickly. After that the paratroopers are doomed. Partroopers barely took Crete, they would not have a ghost of a chance at taking Ireland.

Regarding the possibility of a German invasion of Eire AFTER a sucessful conquest of Britain during Sealion (assuming this were possible), my comment is why? If Hitler takes out the UK, he has won WW2 - at least the war in the west since the USA has not yet joined. Ireland is not a threat, and anyway there is no doubt the Irish Government would probably be more than glad to sign non-aggression pacts quite favorable to Germany to ensure their nation's continued independence. Perhaps if and when a German-USA war develops, the Nazis might see a premptive occupation of Ireland necessary to forestall American occupation of the island - but otherwise, I suspect they'd leave it pretty much alone.

There is no way Germany could have invaded Ireland. They couldn't even have succesfull invaded England never mind Ireland. More or less all of their troop transports were just canal boats which would quickly be sent to the bottom of the sea if they attempted to go into the open Atlantic to invade Ireland.

Germany woudn't be interested in Eire, even if Sealion had worked why waste garrison troops on a provincial little island when Hitler was desperate to strike a blow against the Slavic races in order to aquire Lebensraum?

I agree that a Nazi attack on Southern Ireland would not be wise from their point of view.

Doing unwise things was not unknown in Nazi military policy.

A theorectical scenario might run.

Hitler decides to Postpone the attack on the Soviet Union until he has beaten Britain. Siezing airbases and ports in Southern Ireland would help the U boat campaign

Some people MIGHT tell him that the Nazis would be welcomed by anti British people in Eirer (THEY would be wrong)

What would have been the consequences

Derek Jackson said:

I agree that a Nazi attack on Southern Ireland would not be wise from their point of view.

Doing unwise things was not unknown in Nazi military policy.

A theorectical scenario might run.

Hitler decides to Postpone the attack on the Soviet Union until he has beaten Britain. Siezing airbases and ports in Southern Ireland would help the U boat campaign

Some people MIGHT tell him that the Nazis would be welcomed by anti British people in Eirer (THEY would be wrong)

What would have been the consequences

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The Irish certainly would hve protested but there would have been little opposition in reality, unless British troops had escaped to Ireland and formed an underground guerrilla force, an interesting shift from our reality with British fighting the oppresors lol. As you said postponed the attack on the U.S.S.R then Germany may well have controlled Eire until either losses on the Eastern front precipitated abandonment of Eire or U.S troops overrun what would be little more than token garrison force.

I don't think

I think was logic invasion of Canarias island !

Serious consequences.

Possibly an Irish government in exile forms as an ally of the UK(US later), ultimately receiving control over or a joint dominion regarding Northern Ireland, plus access to the Marshall Plan and an earlier economic boom.

Eamon DeValera or any other politicians who actually work with(or welcome ) the invaders are ruined.

The British are greatly aided in the Battle of Atlantic, given the much expanded range of British air cover for the convoys, not to mention being able to use the Irish ports. In the shorter term the Germans also lose most of their navy and possibly many U-boats as they try desperately to resupply and reinforce Ireland. The Luftwaffe likely takes serious damage as well, just by the RAF deliberately trying to hit the Germans as they are arriving and desperately short on fuel.

The most powerful force in the US antipathetic to the UK just changed its mind dramatically. Perhaps the US is in better shape militarily when Japan hits Pearl Harbor.

Of course the Wehrmacht is screwed as they just invited the one situation they feared. A stand up fight with the British Army where numbers and panzers are NOT on their side. Another moral boosting victory for the Brits.