Iberian Union holds

IIRC, Spain and Portugal were once united. What if that union held up till today?

The problem is that to do that, you need a different set of Habsburg kings (maybe Carlos, the elder son of Felipe II don`t go crazy?), and a less embroiled european situation.
Or maybe an union at a earlier date, as the eldest daughter of the Catholic Kings married the heir of the King of Portugal, who died in a hunting accident. If he would have lived, and the male son of Fernando and Isabel died as in OTL (apparently he was quite sickly, so that wouldn`t very difficult), then Isabel (the mentioned daughter) would have inherited Castilla, and acted as regent in the aragonese kingdoms (that had some some sort of salic law).

And technically the Iberian Union was called Hispania at the time, as Portugal was considered one of the spanish kingdoms until after 1640.

If I recall, didn't one of the Spanish kings give Portugul away to his son or son-in-law? I recall reading that, once upon a time...

Kuralyov said:

If I recall, didn't one of the Spanish kings give Portugul away to his son or son-in-law? I recall reading that, once upon a time...

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not after 1469, but my knowledge of Spanish history before then is pretty weak, OTOH, if you unite POrtugal with on of teh other kingdoms before then you risk butterflying away teh Castille-Aragon union, so it's probably best to look for post 1469 PODs

well, they speak different languages, although they are similar, both being Romance languages... how far back did the two diverge?

Portugal and Spain (at the time Portucale and Castille-Leon) start to diverge in the 1200s and the hostility and rivarly between the two came from 1100s until today. The Iberian Union would fall sooner or later. Even a sooner union would be dificult. In 1383, D. Fernando died and his only heir, D. Beatriz, as married to D. Joan of Castille. Her mother, D. Leonor Teles was to be the regent until a heir of D. Beatriz could take the throne. The Portuguese peasents and few nobles was against this, revolted and united behind Joao, Grand Master of Avis. They managed to beat the large and well prepared Castillian Army with a much smaller Portuguese Army in 1383-1385 war, leadind to the creation of the Avis Dinasty, with D. Joao I.

TimeStorm said:

Portugal and Spain (at the time Portucale and Castille-Leon) start to diverge in the 1200s and the hostility and rivarly between the two came from 1100s until today. The Iberian Union would fall sooner or later. Even a sooner union would be dificult. In 1383, D. Fernando died and his only heir, D. Beatriz, as married to D. Joan of Castille. Her mother, D. Leonor Teles was to be the regent until a heir of D. Beatriz could take the throne. The Portuguese peasents and few nobles was against this, revolted and united behind Joao, Grand Master of Avis. They managed to beat the large and well prepared Castillian Army with a much smaller Portuguese Army in 1383-1385 war, leadind to the creation of the Avis Dinasty, with D. Joao I.

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The Catalans weren't exactly crazy about union with Castille either, but that one (despite A LOT of trouble) survived to the present day, no reason Portugal couldn't have stayed in as well.

Reconquestia

How about a earlier Reconqueatia with both castile and portugal involved with Morocco, a common enemy, no Portugal revolt Hispania stays together?

TimeStorm said:

Portugal and Spain (at the time Portucale and Castille-Leon) start to diverge in the 1200s and the hostility and rivarly between the two came from 1100s until today. The Iberian Union would fall sooner or later. Even a sooner union would be dificult. In 1383, D. Fernando died and his only heir, D. Beatriz, as married to D. Joan of Castille. Her mother, D. Leonor Teles was to be the regent until a heir of D. Beatriz could take the throne. The Portuguese peasents and few nobles was against this, revolted and united behind Joao, Grand Master of Avis. They managed to beat the large and well prepared Castillian Army with a much smaller Portuguese Army in 1383-1385 war, leadind to the creation of the Avis Dinasty, with D. Joao I.

Click to expand...

TimeStorm said:

Portugal and Spain (at the time Portucale and Castille-Leon) start to diverge in the 1200s and the hostility and rivarly between the two came from 1100s until today. The Iberian Union would fall sooner or later. Even a sooner union would be dificult. In 1383, D. Fernando died and his only heir, D. Beatriz, as married to D. Joan of Castille. Her mother, D. Leonor Teles was to be the regent until a heir of D. Beatriz could take the throne. The Portuguese peasents and few nobles was against this, revolted and united behind Joao, Grand Master of Avis. They managed to beat the large and well prepared Castillian Army with a much smaller Portuguese Army in 1383-1385 war, leadind to the creation of the Avis Dinasty, with D. Joao I.

Click to expand...

There was no more hostility between Portugal and Castille, than between Navarre and Leon. All of them considered themselves as part of Hispania, the same once ruled by the romans and then by Visigoths. In the beginning Leon, that took the lead during the Reconquista, considered themselves a heirs of the last Visigoth king Don Rodrigo. Then Navarre took the lead under Sancho III who considered himself as Rex Hispaniorum. Finally Castille became the most powerful kingdom and considered that the castillian kings were heirs of the Visigoths. The rivalry between Portugal and Castille started during the XIV century once the Reconquista was almost over (there was only Granada left, but it was more or less a vassal of Castille) and Castille (united with Leon) tried to annex Portugal.

During the last years of the XV century and the first of the XVI there were intense movements to achieve the union of Portugal and Castille. The Portuguese King wanted to marry Isabel getting that way both crowns, but Isabel prefered the Aragonese Fernando. Then there were several marriages between princes of both sides of the border and in 1502 Miguel, grandson of Isabel, Fernando and the Portuguese King was appointed as heir to the thrones of Castille, Aragon and Portugal. Unfortunately the child died and until the death of Don Sebastian the union was not achieved.

When Isabel and Fernando started to use the name of Spain for their united kingdom the portuguese king was enraged because he felt that name belonged to him as well. So a permanent union between Portugal and Spain could have been easily achieved if the Habsburg kings have taken care of Portuguese territories and they have not maintained an state of war against most of Europe. Perhaps if Charles V had left not only the Empire but Milan and Flanders to Ferdinand and only Spain and America to Felipe...

From my understanding of Portuguese history during the rule of Philip II and Philip III Portugal retained its autonomy and it seemed that the nobility was happy enough with the union. However, once Philip IV became king he began treating Portugal as if it were simply part of Castille and sent many Castillian nobles to administer Portugal and even tried to make Portugal a mere province. Also, the Dutch and English were picking away at Portugal's colonies and the Castillian monarch seemed indifferent to this. Essentially this is what led to the revolt by the Duke of Bragança in 1640.

You cannot forget either the Union of Arms of Olivares that tried to make of Spain a more centralized state, not a confederation. That and the pressure over portuguese possesions were the main reasons.