The Amerika Bomber

Blair152

Banned
The Amerika Bomber
Prologue
Hitler couldn't stand the constant sound of bombs falling on Berlin. The
American B-17 Flying Fortresses and B-24 Liberators were literally turning
Berlin into a living hell. "Mein Fuhrer," Reich Marshal Hermann Goering, the
head of the Luftwaffe, said. Hitler looked at him. He wasn't moved.
"Yes, Herr Reich Marshal?" Hitler asked.
"The Americans have long-range strategic bombers. We don't. We need one
master stroke-----a bold plan, a bold innovation, to bring the Americans to
their knees."
Hitler looked at him. "What do you propose, Herr Reich Marshal?"
"A new bomber to reach America herself, and bomb her cities, then we could
take their capital, Washington, and other cities, like New York, Boston, and
Chicago."
"Do it," Hitler said.
Chapter 1
The Dornier 301, the first long range strategic bomber, took off from its
base in occupied France. Hauptmann Klaus Ziegler, the Luftwaffe's veteran
bomber pilot, having served in the Polish, Danish, Norwegian, Dutch, Belgian, and French, campaigns, and Operation Sealion, led the Luftwaffe's
First Bomber Squadron. Their destination was Washington, DC, the American capital. "Herr Hauptmann," Leutnant Bruno von Kliest, his co-
pilot, asked. "How soon before we're over the Amerikaner capital?"
"Eight hours, Mein Herr," Oberfaenrich Wilhelm Jaeger, the first Amerika Bomber's navigator, replied.
Chapter 2
The bombs seemed to come from out of nowhere. Washington was under
attack for the first time since 1814. "What is it, General Arnold?" Roosevelt
asked. "Mr. President," Arnold replied grimly. "We're being bombed by the
Germans."
"Do we have antiaircraft guns?"
"Yes, sir," George Marshall, the Army Chief of Staff, replied.
"Then, George," Roosevelt said. "Let's use them."
Chapter 3
The flak was so thick that you could get out and walk on it as if it was a carpet. "We're being fired on, Mein Herr," von Kliest said.
"I know," Ziegler replied. "We knew it wouldn't be easy."
 
Er...it wouldn't be as simple as Hitler simply saying 'I want a bomber!' and for Amerikabombers to be swooping over the Atlantic moments later. Expect this to be torn to pieces in moments.
 
This project was subject too a lot of work all throughout the war, the Germans had planes with the capacity to reach America but not ones which could come back. Me 264's could have bombed New York and then their crew could potentially bail out to be rescued by submarine although this strategy was reckoned not worth the effort. At best they could perform limited damage to American production facilities for the expense of several aircraft and probably the crews as even if U-Boats dominated the East Coast (which they by no means did even in the early days of the war), the potential for a sea rescue by submarine is essentially nill.
 

Blair152

Banned
Er...it wouldn't be as simple as Hitler simply saying 'I want a bomber!' and for Amerikabombers to be swooping over the Atlantic moments later. Expect this to be torn to pieces in moments.
I know. Hitler cancelled the Amerika bomber. He had no long range strategic
bombers. All his bombers, except for the Do. 224, I think, which was a maritime patrol plane, were medium range.
 
I can't remember what type it was, but one of the Germans long-range reconassance planes got to within about 17 miles of New York. I'll have to look it up again.

The Germans built them to spy on the Soviet Union (they were running U2 missions 20 years before the Americans). They also used them to fly to Japanese-held airfields in China.
 

Bearcat

Banned
First off, the Germans had no secrets in ww2. Not really. Between their own codes being broken, and the goldmine the Japanese ambassador to Berlin gave us through the broken Japanese codes, we knew almost everything the Germans did before Hitler knew it. :D

Yes, the Germans built a prototype America bomber that flew to NY. So what? That's a year or two and a whole lot of Ruhr factory production from having a working combat capability.

And guess what: all that time, the US would be building Mustangs, and stationing a good number along the Atlantic coast, and building a radar system as well.

So when Goering's boys come calling, they won't be walking on the flak. (Did I mention all our AAA will be firing VT-fused rounds?). They will be perforated by it, after the P-51s first maul them.

Number of bombs on target: very few.

Number of dead German pilots & crew: most of them.

Cost to German war production: Astronomical.

Summary of Hitler's latest bright idea:

Brilliant
, Mein Fuhrer.

Come to ze bunker with me, ve vill drink a little schnapps together...
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
I can't remember what type it was, but one of the Germans long-range reconassance planes got to within about 17 miles of New York. I'll have to look it up again.

The Germans built them to spy on the Soviet Union (they were running U2 missions 20 years before the Americans). They also used them to fly to Japanese-held airfields in China.

There is a claim that a Ju 390 made it to within 19 KILOMETERS of New York. It is utterly unsupported, no one who made or ordered any such flight was ever found, and Luftwaffe records have no information indicating it ever happened. The unsigned letter stating the flight happened is almost universally accepted as being a hoax.

If you mean recon flights, they they were conducting such flights, much like the UK, USSR, France, Japan and the United States. If you mean conducting flights at the edge of space (or at least 25,000 feet higher than any aircraft ever made) they were not.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Well, it actually much WORSE than that. The Ju-390 had a max ceiling for around 20,000 feet and was able to achieve its incredible range by cruising at 217 MPH (it could reach 350 MPH, but only if the pilots wanted to land somewhere mid-Atlantic).

Put another way it was vulnerable to the P-26 Peashooter (a ten year old design, in an era where every plane year of age was like a dog year) and absolute meat on the table for a Buffalo.
First off, the Germans had no secrets in ww2. Not really. Between their own codes being broken, and the goldmine the Japanese ambassador to Berlin gave us through the broken Japanese codes, we knew almost everything the Germans did before Hitler knew it. :D

Yes, the Germans built a prototype America bomber that flew to NY. So what? That's a year or two and a whole lot of Ruhr factory production from having a working combat capability.

And guess what: all that time, the US would be building Mustangs, and stationing a good number along the Atlantic coast, and building a radar system as well.

So when Goering's boys come calling, they won't be walking on the flak. (Did I mention all our AAA will be firing VT-fused rounds?). They will be perforated by it, after the P-51s first maul them.

Number of bombs on target: very few.

Number of dead German pilots & crew: most of them.

Cost to German war production: Astronomical.

Summary of Hitler's latest bright idea:

Brilliant, Mein Fuhrer.

Come to ze bunker with me, ve vill drink a little schnapps together...
 

Cook

Banned
First off, the Germans had no secrets in ww2. Not really. Between their own codes being broken, and the goldmine the Japanese ambassador to Berlin gave us through the broken Japanese codes, we knew almost everything the Germans did before Hitler knew it. ...

The Allies gathered enormous information about the V weapons well before any were deployed but were unable to put the pieces together to resolve a picture of what was going on.

One of the problems was that the number of different weapons being developed (V1, V2, rocket propelled anti-aircraft weapon, multi-stage gun etc) wasn’t anticipated and was assumed to all be parts of the same weapon.

Another problem was the refusal of Allied experts to accept that such technology was even possible. Liquid fuelled rockets weren’t believed to be stable, only solid; a rocket would have to be an enormous multi-stage monster to fly any real distance; the rocket launch site would be enormous and easily located, not mobile; gyros for rocket navigation weren’t anticipated at all.

And guess what: all that time, the US would be building Mustangs, and stationing a good number along the Atlantic coast, and building a radar system as well.

So when Goering's boys come calling, they won't be walking on the flak. (Did I mention all our AAA will be firing VT-fused rounds?). They will be perforated by it, after the P-51s first maul them.

Number of bombs on target: very few.

Number of dead German pilots & crew: most of them.

Cost to German war production: Astronomical.

Summary of Hitler's latest bright idea:

Brilliant, Mein Fuhrer.

Come to ze bunker with me, ve vill drink a little schnapps together...


Additional cost in money, men, equipment and resources redirected away from Europe to defend the American Atlantic coast: Far larger than any German Strategic effort would have cost.

I’m not saying such a thing would have been possible, I’m saying just the threat of such a weapon, taken seriously by the Americans, would have cost enormously.
 
Additional cost in money, men, equipment and resources redirected away from Europe to defend the American Atlantic coast: Far larger than any German Strategic effort would have cost.

I’m not saying such a thing would have been possible, I’m saying just the threat of such a weapon, taken seriously by the Americans, would have cost enormously.

The amount of resources directed towards defending the American homeland against German bombers would have been the exact same as OTL.

Personally, I doubt any German raid could even make it's bomb drop against the forces assembled OTL. Because escorts are impossible and the bombers anti-aircraft armament would have to be non-existant for the required range... the only way the German's would be even easier to shoot down would be if they purposely flew their planes into the ocean before we ever saw them.
 
The only value you would get out of the america bomber is propaganda and sowing fear... this could be achieved with U-boats doing bombardments of coastal cities with their deck guns at night, and you wouldn't have to go through all the hassel expense and difficulty of building such a useless bomber
 
the Luftwaffe's veteran
bomber pilot, having served in the Polish, Danish, Norwegian, Dutch, Belgian, and French, campaigns, and Operation Sealion, led the Luftwaffe's First Bomber Squadron.
Either the thing bolded above ended poorly for the Germans or what the hell are B-17s and B-24s doing over the Reich?
:rolleyes:
 
It is really funny to see how you react when someone wrote a story where the germans were superior in some sense, or, which is my favorite, someone made a mistake and mentioned "Sea lion"...
Holy Crap, this site is mentioned to be alternate history, so everything should, could or would be possible.
So, keep on writing, man. Don't let those feeble-minded little people make you sad.
And btw, germans had lots of planes to use as "amerika bomber", or isn't 15000 km range (Me 264), or 9000 km (He 277) enough? And don't you tell me enything about german's "resources", for example, He 277 is almost the same as He 177.
So, if the situations were different, they could had hundreds of long-range bombers...
 

Cook

Banned
Holy Crap, this site is mentioned to be alternate history, so everything should, could or would be possible.
So, keep on writing, man. Don't let those feeble-minded little people make you sad.

I think I like this guy already.
:D
 
or, which is my favorite, someone made a mistake and mentioned "Sea lion"...
In this case ripping the spammer a new hole over Seelowe is justified... after all he's using attacks by Yank heavy bombers as the driver behind the Germans building the Amerika Bomber: If Seelowe works then the UK is out and the yanks are unable to operate their bomber from anywhere closer than Iceland... given the additional distance and limitations imposed by more limited development (hence lower flow of supplies to airbases etc.), any US bomber offensive is likely to be highly ineffective... negating the stated driver for the Amerika Bomber.

It And btw, germans had lots of planes to use as "amerika bomber", or isn't 15000 km range (Me 264), or 9000 km (He 277) enough? And don't you tell me enything about german's "resources", for example, He 277 is almost the same as He 177.
The usual point: range =/= combat radius... try dividing those figures by 3 to get a rough idea of what the need to return plus a added weight of a bomb load plus the requirement to have some fuel reserves so you can consider going faster than cruising speed for more than a few minutes without falling out of the air plus not being able to carry auxilary fuel tas in place of the bomb load...
 
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