AHC: Muslim Poland, more criteria inside...

There's not a specific time limit for this, but I want to know if it's possible.

The criteria are simply that a people, who are culturally Polish, speak a Polish language, convert to Islam and have a polity that survives to the present day. They are not, however, arabized or turkicized (at least to any great degree) and speak a language that a modern Pol would at least more or less be able to understand.

I will absolutely understand if this isn't possible, but I'd still like an explanation as to why.

That is something I haven't necessarily thought of in the past. From the maps I have seen, at one time the Ottoman Empire bordered the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Not sure if it would have any relevance in this case, but from what I have read the Ottomans were more interested in going for Vienna than pushing further north into Poland. The Hapsburgs were more of a threat to the Ottomans than the Poles. But I digress...

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=319944

This thread has some interesting commentary about the maximum spread of Islam. To be honest, I would have to do some more reading to give a better answer. I hope this helps.

Behemoth said:

That is something I haven't necessarily thought of in the past. From the maps I have seen, at one time the Ottoman Empire bordered the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Not sure if it would have any relevance in this case, but from what I have read the Ottomans were more interested in going for Vienna than pushing further north into Poland. The Hapsburgs were more of a threat to the Ottomans than the Poles. But I digress...

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=319944

This thread has some interesting commentary about the maximum spread of Islam. To be honest, I would have to do some more reading to give a better answer. I hope this helps.

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Regardless of whether or not it helps, it should be interesting to read, so thank you!
Although in all fairness, the Ottomans didn't do a good job of converting Europeans (and with good reason!), so I'm not sure they could've done something as near insurmountable as converting the Polish.

After doing some more reading I did find that a group of Tatars did live in Lithuania and some areas in Poland. They were apparently there since the 14th century, served in the military of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and were free to practice their religion. Eventually, you would have some starting to speak a Ruthenian language by the 18th century after they became more polonized.

Behemoth said:

After doing some more reading I did find that a group of Tatars did live in Lithuania and some areas in Poland. They were apparently there since the 14th century, served in the military of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and were free to practice their religion. Eventually, you would have some starting to speak a Ruthenian language by the 18th century after they became more polonized.

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I have heard overtone singing in Polish traditional music recently! Is this where that comes from?

Isfendil said:

I have heard overtone singing in Polish traditional music recently! Is this where that comes from?

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I am not sure what music/song(s) in particular. I would have to hear them to get an idea though. If I am not sure about the overtone singing then I can ask a friend of mine who is of Polish descent.

WAIT A SECOND!

I have it!

So instead of buying slaves from southern Russia, the Mamelukes buy slaves from Poland (in terms of Geographic area). They come to Egypt, and eventually, they convert to Islam. They speak Polish (maybe).

Perhaps if the Russians convert to Islam during the Tatar Yoke era, and the Muslim Russians conquered Poland later. In time, a significant portion of the Polish population would convert, though not all. By the 20th century, there are two Polish countries, one Catholic and one Sunni, similar to how Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia are Muslim, Catholic, and Orthodox, respectively.

EDIT: Actually, if the Mongols conquered Eastern Europe and its successor states managed to hold it, the Poles would probably keep speaking their language and be converted at the same time. Granted, it would mean all the surrounding countries likely become muslim as well, but that's within OP's parameters.

Tsochar said:

Perhaps if the Russians convert to Islam during the Tatar Yoke era, and the Muslim Russians conquered Poland later. In time, a significant portion of the Polish population would convert, though not all. By the 20th century, there are two Polish countries, one Catholic and one Sunni, similar to how Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia are Muslim, Catholic, and Orthodox, respectively.

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How would the Russians convert to Islam?

And the Poles didn't convert to Orthodox Christianity, why would they convert to an even MORE foreign faith?

ZhugeLiang said:

How would the Russians convert to Islam?

And the Poles didn't convert to Orthodox Christianity, why would they convert to an even MORE foreign faith?

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The Grand Princes of Russia were beginning to adopt Tatar names and practices by the time they liberated themselves. It's not a stretch to think that some would adopt their religion as well, although more widespread adoption would certainly require a change in the way the Mongols treated their vassals.

As for the Poles, a butterflied Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth might be a decent place to start. Without a strong, recent history to be proud of, the Poles might not cling as strongly to their religion. Maybe if the Kingdom of Poland was broken before the Union of Krewo, some Poles might be amenable to conversion.

In any case, I'm just throwing out ideas, but I think the formation of the PLC is probably one of the latest points the Poles could convert in large numbers.

Didn't Poland have a period of religious freedom sonewhere around 1600?

Tsochar said:

The Grand Princes of Russia were beginning to adopt Tatar names and practices by the time they liberated themselves. It's not a stretch to think that some would adopt their religion as well, although more widespread adoption would certainly require a change in the way the Mongols treated their vassals.

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[citation needed]

I don't recall any signs of willingness to convert from Orthodox Christianity on the side of Rus princes OTL.

Tsochar said:

As for the Poles, a butterflied Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth might be a decent place to start. Without a strong, recent history to be proud of, the Poles might not cling as strongly to their religion.

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Er, what? Did the 400+ years of Piast Dynasty disappeared somewhere?

Tsochar said:

Maybe if the Kingdom of Poland was broken before the Union of Krewo, some Poles might be amenable to conversion.

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Doubtful. Poland was broken in multitude of principalities since 1138, and the decisive re-emergence of (mostly) united kingdom only took part in 1320, yet there was no drive to convert to anything. Instead, the Catholicism was getting stronger.

Tsochar said:

In any case, I'm just throwing out ideas, but I think the formation of the PLC is probably one of the latest points the Poles could convert in large numbers.

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Too late - you need at most late XIth C. POD.

I think you would have to have a pretty early PoD, Ottoman time, when Islam was furthest in Europe and closest to conquering Poland(which is easily possible), wouldn't really work, even if they conquered Poland it was completely against their way of governing.

While there is a time period for Islam to succeed, Poland became Christianized in 10th century, it would have to be through a Islamic Russia. I guess a much more Islamic and converting Mongol could do it, but I think the best possibility is having very early Islamic preachers get there and be successfull in converting Russia super early.