how could New England become independent from the US? ive read about the new England secession, how plausible was it?
what would a USA look like without new England?
what would a USA look like without new England?
Independent New England?
- Thread starter AdmiralBlake
- Start date
If this happened while the U.S was a slave nation, hey presto! You've got "Decades of Darkness!"
i have read decades of darkness, but i was hoping for original views
besides, i thought it would be interesting if the US didnt win the mexican war, and/or texas remained independent
I haven't read the whole timeline, but I think it's basic premise of a highly slavery-oriented, aggressive United States is correct.
yes, about that
I was just wondering what people thought about an independent new England from 1770-1850ish
New England would become a pretty prosperous maritime trading nation whose biggest problem would be relations with the US and the pro-US annexation element that would exist within itself. (Assuming the split wasn't too bloody)
The rest of the US would be initially slightly less manufacturing orientated, more agrarian, and much more friendly to the institution of slavery. I haven't read Decades of Darkness, but it revolves around a rump-US taking up industrialized slavery, right? I don't think that's plausible and that it would go down that path, but slavery could linger in all states south of the Mason-Dixon line for practically forever.
Alternatively if North-South economic tensions grow anyway, New York or states even further west or south might apply to join New England, if New England split off earlier without too much hatred on either side. Would work out well for the South.
New York was heavily Yankee in its Northern Reaches, it would not be surprising if part of it broke off.
I would wonder how much more of the northern USA would go with them. Timothy Pickering had defended the Westmoreland settlers of northern Pennsylvania in the 1770s and so all Yankee settlement from that point on was in living memory - surely these guys would have some strong feelings for their homeland. Westmoreland and the Western Reserve and definitely New York above the City would be sensitive to pro-Yankee thought.
Heck. Going with the Articles split-up POD, It was not just New England talking of secession in 1786, but the Essex Junto that hoped for splitting New England from the Union tried to bring in ALL the northern states with them! They hoped to do so again in 1803, grabbing everything 'to the Potomac' as correspondence from a Junto member admitted.
In that case you have a northern US split-off country genuinely dominated by the New England states.
No matter if it's just New England, NE plus Yankee-settled areas, or the entire free states as their own land, you would have a country attuned to industrialization and urbanization. Tariffs a-plenty since the southern states can't defeat or water them down. Initially strong bouts of nativism - Know-Nothings started up north - eventually giving way to immigration for factory workers and farmers on the plains. It would also be pro-British, so Canada's safe.
Heck. Going with the Articles split-up POD, It was not just New England talking of secession in 1786, but the Essex Junto that hoped for splitting New England from the Union tried to bring in ALL the northern states with them! They hoped to do so again in 1803, grabbing everything 'to the Potomac' as correspondence from a Junto member admitted.
In that case you have a northern US split-off country genuinely dominated by the New England states.
No matter if it's just New England, NE plus Yankee-settled areas, or the entire free states as their own land, you would have a country attuned to industrialization and urbanization. Tariffs a-plenty since the southern states can't defeat or water them down. Initially strong bouts of nativism - Know-Nothings started up north - eventually giving way to immigration for factory workers and farmers on the plains. It would also be pro-British, so Canada's safe.
Alternately, the whole thing could break off if there's a relatively friendly American and republican state next to it that fits its interests much better. Absorbing New York or other northern states would also protect New England from bullying or threats of annexation by the rump-US.
It's not the only option for an independent New England, though.
There's other, more amicable means (and not just Dathi's Canada-wank TL). Alternatively, there's some potential scenarios for New England rejoining BNA, but I don't think they fit the OP. It would be funny, however, if there was an independent New England scenario based off of people on both sides of the Atlantic not being pricks and thus allowing the Dominion of New England to survive. For the 1770-1850 time frame, however, the earliest and best bet IMO would be having the AoC fall apart and have "New England" with New York State and New Jersey included. Granted, it would be a post-1776 reincarnation of the Dominion of New England, but one would assume that people in the late 18th century would be smart enough to come up with a solution.Well, from my viewpoint, It wasn't all that likely to go thru as it was IOTL, due to the circumstances of the time. Now, perhaps if the War of 1812 had been worse than OTL, and if the Embargo Act, or one of it's equivalents, had never ended.....well, then it might become not just possible, but in a way that wouldn't be too hard to achieve, and there might just be more than N.E. that goes.....
In any case, however, there's one thing we may need to consider: there's a fair chance that quite a few people might simply just up and leave the area, and go elsewhere, rather than stay. I can easily see many of them ending up in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Del., and Ind. & Ill. without too much trouble, even including if New York + N.J. stay in the Union. One major plus to this is that it would, in all likelihood, permanently quash any chances of slavery taking any hold in those states.