Spanish Civil War, Republican victory possible without British/French help?

celt · Feb 28, 2015

Could the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War have defeated the Nationalists without help from the Western powers?

Apparently (according to Stanley Payne in The Spanish Revolution) there was a huge amount of Soviet war material stuck at the French border in 1938/39, would that have made a difference in the Battle for Catalonia?

Or were the Soviets ultimately more of a hindrance than a help as allies?

kung Zog · Feb 28, 2015

Sure thing they can, especially an early victory. Army of Africa not getting over to mainland Spain is the most common POD, but there are other possibilities.

celt · Feb 28, 2015

kung Zog said:
Sure thing they can, especially an early victory. Army of Africa not getting over to mainland Spain is the most common POD, but there are other possibilities.

How could you prevent the Army of Africa coming over, I guess we wave away the Junkers 52s the Germans sent, but what's preventing the Rebels sending them over on ships, which from what I understand they did mostly anyway.

Wasn't the part of the Navy that stayed loyal to the government in to much disorder to intervene. I know as well there were German ships shadowing the sealift to the mainland.

Ok to start off how do we get the Germans to stay out of the War?

ChazMo · Feb 28, 2015

celt said:
Or were the Soviets ultimately more of a hindrance than a help as allies?

You mean when they weren't flogging the Republic sub-par equipment in return for the bulk of Spain's gold reserves? Or before Stalin had his acolytes drive every non-lackey into mass-graves?

The Soviets betrayed Spain.

celt · Feb 28, 2015

ChazMo said:
You mean when they weren't flogging the Republic sub-par equipment in return for the bulk of Spain's gold reserves? Or before Stalin had his acolytes drive every non-lackey into mass-graves?

The Soviets betrayed Spain.

Yes this is what I mean, but on the other hand who else was willing to give the Spanish government weapons, apart from them and Mexico?

ChazMo · Feb 28, 2015

celt said:
Yes this is what I mean, but on the other hand who else was willing to give the Spanish government weapons, apart from them and Mexico?

A steady inflow of weapons and equipment is never going to amount to much if your opponent's got a better source, ready to supply stuff that actually works in way larger quantities - crucially, a source that doesn't encourage one faction to turn on its own in the face of a fascist onslaught.

celt · Feb 28, 2015

ChazMo said:
A steady inflow of weapons and equipment is never going to amount to much if your opponent's got a better source, ready to supply stuff that actually works in way larger quantities - crucially, a source that doesn't encourage one faction to turn on its own in the face of a fascist onslaught.

Yep that's my problem, how to get the Government to win without the help of the less ideologically interfering governments of the UK or France.

ChazMo · Feb 28, 2015

celt said:
Yep that's my problem, how to get the Government to win without the help of the less ideologically interfering governments of the UK or France.

See here. Republican victory does not hinge on foreign support so much as it does the reluctance of foreign governments to directly support the opposition.