WI: NASA gets the Flax Shuttle?

During the rather protracted process leading to the beginning of Space Shuttle development, NASA faced considerable opposition from other bodies in the government, particularly the OMB, who were concerned about the cost of developing a reusable or partially reusable spacecraft and skeptical that it would be as economically advantageous as NASA made it out to be. This skepticism led to a number of efforts to design a non-NASA shuttle which would, hopefully, be gentler on the budget than the typically grandiose NASA efforts. In particular, in 1971 President Nixon's science adviser, Edward David, convened a panel chaired by Alexander Flax to review the Shuttle's development and produce recommendations on how to proceed. When the Flax Committee issued an interim report in October 1971, they showed skepticism that the then-planned Shuttle program (which by that point generally resembled the OTL program) was achievable or practical (Flax noting that "members...doubt that a viable shuttle program can be undertaken without a degree of national commitment...analogous to that which sustained the Apollo program...certainly not now apparent"), and instead recommended that NASA develop a small "glider" that would be launched on top of a Titan IIIL (a wide-body version of the Titan), with a payload of perhaps 10,000 pounds, in effect a shuttle very much like the HL-42 (a development of the smaller HL-20 crew vehicle that was intended to give it a more significant payload). NASA, of course, didn't like the idea very much, nor did the Air Force (although the Air Force was never particularly happy with the shuttle anyways...)

Ultimately, of course, NASA was able to proceed with its preferred large shuttle by a combination of underhanded trickery (a larger but conceptually similar small OMB-designed shuttle was undermined when NASA assumed all the expensive bits would be located in an expendable booster, resulting in a high per-flight cost) and high-level political support (Caspar Weinberger, at that time the head of the Office of Management and Budget, was a fan of the space program; earlier, he had helped shield the Apollo program from cancellation of several late J-class missions). However, this decision was far from preordained; at several points, Fletcher (the then-administrator) and George Low (previously responsible for Apollo development following the Apollo 1 fire) considered cancelling the shuttle project altogether due to OMB pressure. It's plausible, especially if Air Force support was less forthcoming, that they might settle on a Flax-style glider shuttle as a compromise that will at least move them part of the way towards the end goal, much as NASA in the real world compromised for just a shuttle that they hoped could be used to sell a space station later on.

Supposing they did so, what would the consequences be? Certainly a Flax-style shuttle would be far simpler and easier to develop than the real shuttle; although the Titan IIIL would need to be developed, it had already been designed and most of the key, complex hardware already existed. None of the dramatic development difficulties experienced by the SSMEs would have occurred, since there would be no need to develop the SSMEs. On the whole, I suspect the first flight would take place as much as a year or two earlier than STS-1 actually did. It almost certainly would not have cost any more to operate, and might even have cost less given the far smaller size of the orbiter and the correspondingly smaller job of refurbishing it after flight, though the cost of handling the large Titan IIIL core and its extremely toxic hypergolic propellants might have eventually outweighed any savings on that end.

Safety-wise, although the Columbia accident would have been impossible (no external tank), the Challenger accident, or something much like it, would not have been, and could have been far worse given the fact that, as I mentioned, the Titan IIIL core used highly toxic hypergolic propellants instead of clean-burning liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen. This serious Titan accident just a few months after Challenger proves the point. However, because the shuttle would be a spacecraft like Apollo or Soyuz instead of a launch vehicle, it could easily have been launched on a new launch vehicle designed to be safer and more reliable than the Titan IIIL (for example, something like one of the expanded Delta IVs). More importantly, due to the much smaller size of the orbiter and its likely positioning atop the Titan IIIL instead of on the side, it could have had a robust abort system built in, much like the HL-42; although a launch accident could have contaminated LC-39 and caused serious issues, it would have had a smaller chance of destroying the orbiter and killing the astronauts aboard than with the real shuttle.

Capability-wise, nothing serious would be lost; although the orbiter itself would not be able to independently carry space station modules, satellites, or other spacecraft into orbit, as events proved that was a largely illusory capability for the OTL shuttle, and the large capacity of the Titan IIIL would be a more than adequate substitute for government payloads. The Flax shuttle would be more than capable of acting as a space station logistics or rescue vehicle, or operating as an independent space station for short or medium-duration research flights like the OTL Spacelab or Spacehab flights, with other payloads flying on dedicated vehicles.

As far as broader effects go, I think the timeline e of pi and I have written is at least a good place to start, given that we have a similar change. First and perhaps foremost, without the "threat" of the orbiter "first striking" Moscow, Buran is very unlikely to go forwards as per OTL. Instead, a smaller shuttle might be built by Glushko (who still probably ends up getting control of the Soviet space program) to replace Soyuz and Progress for space station logistics, or there might not be any plans to replace those spacecraft at all. Without the promise and threat of the space shuttle in the late 1970s and early 1980s, the US commercial (such as it was) launch market at that time is probably healthier and tries harder to attract customers; and given that there won't be a Challenger-type failure that requires a lot of customers to suddenly find a new launch provider, Arianespace probably faces a much tougher row to hoe than IOTL, and is probably not as successful as OTL. They might still want to build their own mini orbiter, or they might not...
 

Thande

Donor
Very interesting, I was unaware of this. I should think the comparison that would be made at the time (in military circles) would be the Dyna-Soar.

You mention the Soviets might respond by building something similar--didn't they already have several projects of this type? I recall one with the (bizarre) idea of launching a small shuttle on top of the first stage of the N-1 rocket, for instance.

Oh, and "Flax Shuttle" sounds like something invented by a Lancastrian with huge sideburns in the eighteenth century ;)
 
Very interesting, I was unaware of this. I should think the comparison that would be made at the time (in military circles) would be the Dyna-Soar.

Even the Flax Shuttle is quite a bit bigger than the Dyna-Soar. It would likely have been a lifting body like the HL-10, M2-F3, or X-24, given then-NASA interest in the type, the lack of need for large cross-ranges, and the complexity of the aerodynamics and thermal dynamics of the straight-winged designs, so it also probably wouldn't have looked very similar. Oddly there doesn't seem to have been any mention of this at the time, though my source doesn't go into great detail, either.

You mention the Soviets might respond by building something similar--didn't they already have several projects of this type? I recall one with the (bizarre) idea of launching a small shuttle on top of the first stage of the N-1 rocket, for instance.

Yes, there were a number of small shuttle projects the Soviets carried out. Probably the most famous is the MiG-105 test vehicle, but Chelomei had a very similar idea for a small shuttle launched by the Proton, the LKS. However, Chelomei's political difficulties mean, at least to my mind, that it's never going to fly, unless he simply outlives Ustinov et. al. (a possibility, his death IOTL was quite random).

Oh, and "Flax Shuttle" sounds like something invented by a Lancastrian with huge sideburns in the eighteenth century ;)

That did occur to me...;)
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
These are difficult issues, including emotionally.

The Shuttle astronauts performed skillfully and professionally, and at times heroically, in the circumstances given to them. I would have liked for them to have better circumstances.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
. . . and instead recommended that NASA develop a small "glider" that would be launched on top of a Titan IIIL (a wide-body version of the Titan), with a payload of perhaps 10,000 pounds, in effect a shuttle very much like the HL-42 (a development of the smaller HL-20 crew vehicle that was intended to give it a more significant payload). . .
And sometimes you don't need the seven member crew. I mean, you don't always need the space bus. Sometimes the three-member crew in a capsule might be plenty. Sometimes you might not need humans along at all, but maybe the Titan just to launch a satellite.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Everything old is new again...this is the OSP in a nutshell

During the rather protracted process leading to the beginning of Space Shuttle development, NASA faced considerable opposition from other bodies in the government, particularly the OMB, who were concerned about the cost of developing a reusable or partially reusable spacecraft and skeptical that it would be as economically advantageous as NASA made it out to be. This skepticism led to a number of efforts to design a non-NASA shuttle which would, hopefully, be gentler on the budget than the typically grandiose NASA efforts. In particular, in 1971 President Nixon's science adviser, Edward David, convened a panel chaired by Alexander Flax to review the Shuttle's development and produce recommendations on how to proceed. When the Flax Committee issued an interim report in October 1971, they showed skepticism that the then-planned Shuttle program (which by that point generally resembled the OTL program) was achievable or practical (Flax noting that "members...doubt that a viable shuttle program can be undertaken without a degree of national commitment...analogous to that which sustained the Apollo program...certainly not now apparent"), and instead recommended that NASA develop a small "glider" that would be launched on top of a Titan IIIL (a wide-body version of the Titan), with a payload of perhaps 10,000 pounds, in effect a shuttle very much like the HL-42 (a development of the smaller HL-20 crew vehicle that was intended to give it a more significant payload). NASA, of course, didn't like the idea very much, nor did the Air Force (although the Air Force was never particularly happy with the shuttle anyways...)

Which, when I worked on it in a minor role as the prelude to what became the CEV, was basically envisaged as an gliding re-entry aerospacecraft launched on an EELV, generally accepted as the Delta IV heavy, although we were careful to say we were "agnostic" on the launch vehicle, for obvious reasons.

Still didn't work, but we tried.

Best,
 
Very interesting, I was unaware of this. I should think the comparison that would be made at the time (in military circles) would be the Dyna-Soar.

You mention the Soviets might respond by building something similar--didn't they already have several projects of this type? I recall one with the (bizarre) idea of launching a small shuttle on top of the first stage of the N-1 rocket, for instance.

Oh, and "Flax Shuttle" sounds like something invented by a Lancastrian with huge sideburns in the eighteenth century ;)

Oh with Flex Shuttle, the Soviet will take LKS just like they build Buran in OTL
the Soviet Military will demanded a reusable manned spacecraft with "analogous tactical-technical characteristics" of US Space Shuttle, in simple words "Build it like the Shuttle!"
and that is Flex proposal on top of toxic rocket, just take Proton rocket with orbiter op top

on Titan IIIL it's a monster
44.3 meter high, 4.57 meter ø
equipped with 2 or 4 seven segment Booster from Titan IIIM (also there subsystems)
payloads using a Centaur as third stage:
Titan IIIL2 35,000 kg (77,000 lb) at Launch Price of $33 million in 1965 dollars.
Titan IIIL4 45,000 kg (99,000 lb) at Launch Price of $38 million in 1965 dollars.

the irony is that Titan manufacture Martin Marietta Astronautics Group proposed Lifting body mini Shuttles to USAF

image3a.jpg
 
???
That's got a Gemini at one end facing one way, a mini shuttle facing the other and ?acceleration couches in the center, facing a third way?

I really, really hope I'm misreading this picture.

Looks like a MOL station with a Gemini Capsule at one end and a mini-shuttle docked at the other. Not sure what that combination would be used for.
 
I always thought that one of the greatest mistakes in The Shuttle Decision was the decision to combine crew and payload in one vehicle.

Obviously, the "Flax Shuttle" wouldn't have suffered from that problem. Among other things.

I still like your Eyes Turned Skyward timeline solution, Goblin; it leveraged existing hardware in the maximum possible way to a viable strategy that conformed to budget realities (i.e., retreating to LEO to develop the experience and knowledge involved with space stations until the worm turned). Were NASA to have abandoned Apollo for Flax, it would have been more expensive - more hardware to develop and test, and that's without figuring out the launch vehicle situation (would this go on a Saturn IC?). And while you might be able to adjust it to allow the 5 man crew that your Block III+ permitted (ending the "seat wars") - though it would likely be rather cramped - it's also a vehicle that you could not so easily readapt to a later lunar return program, as you did with Apollo Block V.

All that said, if the attraction of going forward with something sexier like a reusable shuttle proves too strong to resist in 1970-72, something like Flax would have made far more sense than STS did.
 
???
That's got a Gemini at one end facing one way, a mini shuttle facing the other and ?acceleration couches in the center, facing a third way?

I really, really hope I'm misreading this picture.

Is USAF MOL station what use Gemini capsule and yes they study also lifting body instead of capsule for MOL

That no acceleration couches in the center, that is commando post for shuttle pilot for active docking with MOL or space station.
 
I still like your Eyes Turned Skyward timeline solution, Goblin; it leveraged existing hardware in the maximum possible way to a viable strategy that conformed to budget realities (i.e., retreating to LEO to develop the experience and knowledge involved with space stations until the worm turned). Were NASA to have abandoned Apollo for Flax, it would have been more expensive - more hardware to develop and test, and that's without figuring out the launch vehicle situation (would this go on a Saturn IC?).

No, as I said and linked it was supposed to go on a Titan IIIL--a wide-body Titan version (in our timeline, this showed up in the guise of the Titan V). The Saturn hardware would have been retired, but the Titan IIIL had a pretty beefy lifting capacity so this wouldn't really have been a problem. Titan IIIL would have been more than capable of doing all the things the Shuttle did IOTL and almost all the things the Saturn family did in Eyes. It probably would not have cost all that much to develop and test the Titan IIIL, because as I said all of the complex hardware--the boosters, the rockets--were supposed to be identical to usual Titan hardware or to Titan IIIM hardware (which had been developed but not flown).

And while you might be able to adjust it to allow the 5 man crew that your Block III+ permitted (ending the "seat wars") - though it would likely be rather cramped - it's also a vehicle that you could not so easily readapt to a later lunar return program, as you did with Apollo Block V.

It could most certainly have carried five astronauts--as I said, it's comparable to HL-42, which was designed to carry four astronauts and five tons of cargo. It would be quite possible to rig up a few extra seats or carry a module in the payload bay (if a separate payload bay was built). Overall, it would have had similar crew accommodations to the actual shuttle; most of the size shrink would have come from reducing the cargo capability. It would have needed a station more than the real shuttle for worthwhile work, but that's not necessarily a bad thing...
 
WG,

" It would have needed a station more than the real shuttle for worthwhile work, but that's not necessarily a bad thing..."

No, it most certainly wouldn't. :)

Thanks for the clarification on the Titan. My question was more about how Eyes a Turned Skywards would be modified with Low adopting a Flax shuttle. But if I read you correctly, that still means Titan IIIL is in the driver's seat, not Saturn heritage LV's.
 
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Archibald

Banned
Catching this a bit late (oh well)
The Flax shuttle was really a near miss, NASA might very well had it.
In fact Flax was a member of the PSAC, the President Science Advisory Committee. He managed to influence the OMB so efficiently that, mid- October 1971, the OMB declared they would no longer consider any full-size orbiter shuttle; read, a shuttle cut around the USAF payload bay of 15 x 60 feet. The OMB wanted the Flax shuttle and nothing else.

The day was October 22 1971. Six days later the Mathematica Institute had a memo where they defended the shuttle as we know it, the so-called TAOS.

up to this point NASA didn't cared about TAOS or Mathematica; plan B. Late September Fletcher had asked for the Saturn-Shuttle, with a pressure-fed booster as Plan B.

But now the TAOS was the only shuttle with a cost low enough (5.15 billion$) that OMB might accept it.

From October 28, 1971 to January 3, 1972 NASA and Mathematica fought for the TAOS against the OMB / PSAC "flax shuttle"

It was one hell of a battle but they had their full size, TAOS shuttle in the end.

In fact the Flax shuttle was still a shuttle in the sense it had wings and a payload bay. So the shuttle was still alive, and NASA managed to salavage the TAOS from it.

Had Flax shuttle never existed, NASA might have very well ended with Big Gemini - no wings, no payload bay, not a shuttle but still a manned spacecraft, and only 2.5$ billion in development costs...

Well, its the POD of my own space TL. NASA strongly refuse a "glider" in september, so there's no Flax shuttle in October... and the shuttle dies on October 22, 1971 with Big Gemini replacing it.

As for Apollo vs Big Gemini I'm very well aware of the pros and cons. I picked Big G because it is somewhat similar to the lost shuttle. Call this the psychological factor...
 
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The HL-42 would be a little more than 1/5th the mass of the Shuttle Orbiter. That would much less stress on the structure of the HL-42 as compared to the stresses on the Shuttle Orbiter.

I would expect that to make it a much safer vehicle.

I imagine it would also be cheaper to build more of them (to spread the workload over more vehicles) or to have a regular replacement schedule (say, keep a capsule in use for a decade before it would be replaced by a new one from the factory), which would also improve safety.

Would certainly be interesting to see what might happen if it did live up to its promise.

I wonder if the Soviets would be so quick to copy it though? They had their own space plane lobby, it is true, but without the inflated military aspect of the Shuttle, they don't have an example of the Americans claiming incredible levels of performance that says: "match us or die".

fasquardon
 
I wonder if the Soviets would be so quick to copy it though? They had their own space plane lobby, it is true, but without the inflated military aspect of the Shuttle, they don't have an example of the Americans claiming incredible levels of performance that says: "match us or die".

More importantly, the Flax Shuttle has no clear military mission (or at any rate it's hard to imagine one). IOTL, the Soviet leaders were bizarrely enthralled with the idea that the Shuttle was some kind of first strike weapon that would take off from Vandenberg, drop a bomb on Moscow, and return in the fabled "90-minute mission" desired by the Air Force (despite the fact that we already had perfectly good rockets that could do exactly that in a third of the time. Of course, they wouldn't come back, but that's not really an issue when they don't have people in them...) They wanted a Shuttle to match this almost totally imaginary military mission. There's no way that the Flax Shuttle would have this perception. It quite possibly wouldn't even be planned to launch from Vandenberg, since it's just a payload instead of a launch vehicle.

Hence, no big Shuttle, no (perceived) first-strike mission. No first-strike mission, no pressure to build Buran. That doesn't mean that Chelomei (who, of course, was an aircraft designer first) or Glushko won't push for a smaller shuttle for the same reasons that NASA did IOTL and, presumably, ITTL, to reduce costs, but the military angle will be absent.
 

Archibald

Banned
More importantly, the Flax Shuttle has no clear military mission (or at any rate it's hard to imagine one). IOTL, the Soviet leaders were bizarrely enthralled with the idea that the Shuttle was some kind of first strike weapon that would take off from Vandenberg, drop a bomb on Moscow, and return in the fabled "90-minute mission" desired by the Air Force (despite the fact that we already had perfectly good rockets that could do exactly that in a third of the time. Of course, they wouldn't come back, but that's not really an issue when they don't have people in them...) They wanted a Shuttle to match this almost totally imaginary military mission. There's no way that the Flax Shuttle would have this perception. It quite possibly wouldn't even be planned to launch from Vandenberg, since it's just a payload instead of a launch vehicle.

Hence, no big Shuttle, no (perceived) first-strike mission. No first-strike mission, no pressure to build Buran. That doesn't mean that Chelomei (who, of course, was an aircraft designer first) or Glushko won't push for a smaller shuttle for the same reasons that NASA did IOTL and, presumably, ITTL, to reduce costs, but the military angle will be absent.

The soviets might very well nuild a 20 ton spaceplane to go a top of a Proton (akin to Chelomei LKS, except Chelomei doesn't stand a chance, as usual)

That first strike Shuttle concept has an interesting backstory. It was centered around Keldysh maths insitute. some students there did the calculations, which reached Keldysh. Keldysh took that seriously and went to Brezhnev, and Brezhnev started Buran...
 
Wasn't it the high cross-range capability (advertised) of the shuttle that really worried the Soviets? Because according the the Astronautica entry, HL-42 was designed for a cross-range very close to that of the shuttle. (HL-42 was designed for a cross-range of 999 nautical miles, where as the shuttle was supposed to have a cross-range of 1,085 nautical miles.)

fasquardon
 
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