AHC: Greater Canada
- Thread starter FPSlover
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Well, one way you might be able to achieve this, is perhaps the "Pig War" of IOTL happens somewhere else, in say, maybe where Vancouver, WA was in our reality, or perhaps somewhere in the eastern Prairies(northwest Minn.?). The 46th parallel wouldn't be that hard to achieve, but you don't have to stick to a totally straight line: I actually contemplated a more complex arrangement in my "The 1827 Shuffle" story, starting with a line at 46 degrees, 46 minutes North, in the general vicinity of what was OTL's Itasca, Minnesota(the Iron Range area stayed in the U.S.), up to the Missouri River, then going from there to 47 degrees, 47 minutes, up to the Rockies, and then going up the Divide and finishing with 49 degrees as with OTL.
It may not seem like much, but I did end up with parts of OTL North Dakota and Montana going into Canada.
Interesting. I will have to read your timeline. However I was more looking for places like OTL border states and the north east.
The farthest east you might get is the Midwest, like parts of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. You could also get part of Maine. The rest of the Northeast is ASB, though. We'd outnumber the Canadians.
Well, I guess northern Maine wouldn't be too hard to pull off if you're thinking of the North East as well(Webster-Ashburton treaty). And, perhaps, if things manage to go wrong with the Vermont Republic somehow, Britain might even try to annex some of that place's northern regions.
Edit: here's the link to my TL, btw: The 1827 Shuffle.
Maine really is not that hard to pull off since much of the population is either Canadian, English or just a few generations removed from being one of the two. Its the same with New Hampshire. Both have the largest groups of English-American and Canadian-American on the Census. Vermont might be interesting too but I think that it is unlikely due to possible resistance by the people living in Vermont.
Alaska is easy. Wisconsin and much of Maine could go too, thanks to an alt-War of 1812 where the British win decisively (which shouldn't be too hard); perhaps, more questionably, that could lead to a general Anglo-American border over much of the North American continent being a parallel slightly further south than OTL's 49th parallel, which would give Canada a portion of the USA's northwestern row of states. There's also the dispute over Columbia/Oregon, which could perhaps have ended more favourably for the British Empire, though by that time Anglo-American relations need to be friendly enough for Canada to survive later, so I'd suspect not. The British were even interested in colonising California at one point, though a change in administration got rid of that possibility.
The difficulty with an über-Canada is that it has to strike the right balance between taking land from the USA and not annoying the USA too much for fear of being squashed. For instance, it's possible to imagine the British winning big in the War of 1812, in which case we might see the Americans fail to keep Louisiana… but in that case the über-British North America would probably not last very long before being crushed by a vengeful USA. Even in the scenario I proposed, the USA would probably be pretty anti-British so it would take quite an improvement in relations later to make sure that the USA didn't fight a war of revenge.
The difficulty with an über-Canada is that it has to strike the right balance between taking land from the USA and not annoying the USA too much for fear of being squashed. For instance, it's possible to imagine the British winning big in the War of 1812, in which case we might see the Americans fail to keep Louisiana… but in that case the über-British North America would probably not last very long before being crushed by a vengeful USA. Even in the scenario I proposed, the USA would probably be pretty anti-British so it would take quite an improvement in relations later to make sure that the USA didn't fight a war of revenge.
The furthest I've ever postulated (and with input from others) with an 1812 victory is all of Northern Maine (which then never splits from Massechusits) a slice from Sackets Harbor to Plattsburgh, most of OTL Michigan and Wisconsin, Oregon, and then (much like the arbitrary 49th parallel of OTL) the the border being lowered to reflect this.
Roughly the map of Canada from this map I madehttps://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=9831155&postcount=7158
Roughly the map of Canada from this map I madehttps://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=9831155&postcount=7158
Could Britain nab California from Spain? Add the rest of the west coast and that's a large amount of land.
Maybe in return for kicking Napoleon out of Iberia? As far as I recall Britain had some claim on the area and the Spanish hadn't settled that extensively.
Main problem I see is the US being a bit upset that they only get one shiney sea. That could lead to a spot of bother.
Maybe in return for kicking Napoleon out of Iberia? As far as I recall Britain had some claim on the area and the Spanish hadn't settled that extensively.
Main problem I see is the US being a bit upset that they only get one shiney sea. That could lead to a spot of bother.
If New England actually does secede during the War of 1812 and seeks British protection from US revanchism, you might see the area joining Canada when BNA gets federated.
Plus, if New England does actually declare independence, I'd imagine it would be quite a blow to American morale, perhaps enough to make them cede land around the Great Lakes during the peace treaty.
Plus, if New England does actually declare independence, I'd imagine it would be quite a blow to American morale, perhaps enough to make them cede land around the Great Lakes during the peace treaty.
New England secession was never anything serious. It was more discontent with the war than anything else.
I'm not sure that British California would end up being joined to Canada, though. Communications with the centre of Canadian gravity out east might make such a union infeasible.
True, although maybe with the right POD you could make it actually happen.
Well, California is quite far from the centre of US power too, but I see what you mean. Perhaps another dominion of Columbia or something on the west coast would be formed.. I accidently made Canada smaller didn't I..
California might be far from the capitol, but the American center of population is probably somewhere in the Midwest. Canada's, on the other hand, is clearly in the east.
