CSA Victory, Mexico Wank?

Emperor Julian · Jul 23, 2015

Generally, CSA victory TLs wank the Confederacy, and frequently do so at the expense of Mexico and Cuba. So I was thinking, what if the opposite occurred?

Let's say some independent Southern breakaway gains its independence successfully by the mid 1860s using a POD whenever we please. Let's say that it controls the Arizonan and New Mexican territory claimed in OTL. Let's say that this CSA, taking a cue from the many TLs on this site, invades Mexico in hopes of gaining more territory and a Pacific coastline. What happens if they lose, badly, and Mexico takes the CSA's Arizonan and New Mexican territory and the Texan territory they claimed in the Mexican American War?

frustrated progressive · Jul 23, 2015

The Us moves in for the kill, whether they contest mexico's victory depends on bellicosity and relative strength.

General Greene · Jul 23, 2015

The US might even go after Mexico instead of the CSA given that the west is less likely to have built of defensive positions, depending on when the CSA invades Mexico. Regain territory without having to deal with another campaign against Richmond.

GohanLSSJ2 · Jul 23, 2015

It depends wether or not Lincoln is on the scene. If he is, their chances are slim. But if not, they have a chance to get some territory back. Although I really like the idea of Mexico ending up ANNEXING the entirety of Dixieland. Lets see those racist assholes' faces when the Mexicans run them over!

Not Henry G. · Jul 23, 2015

GohanLSSJ2 said:
It depends wether or not Lincoln is on the scene. If he is, their chances are slim. But if not, they have a chance to get some territory back. Although I really like the idea of Mexico ending up ANNEXING the entirety of Dixieland. Lets see those racist assholes' faces when the Mexicans run them over!

Yeah, sounds like one hell of a TL. I might put one of my TLs on break to write about that!

GohanLSSJ2 · Jul 23, 2015

Not Henry G. said:
Yeah, sounds like one hell of a TL. I might put one of my TLs on break to write about that!

Man, that'd be awesome! ¡Viva México, cabrones!

I'm working on writting such a scenario, only as part of a much larger timeline starting in the mid-1700.

Not Henry G. · Jul 23, 2015

GohanLSSJ2 said:
Man, that'd be awesome! ¡Viva México, cabrones!

I'm working on writting such a scenario, only as part of a much larger timeline starting in the mid-1700.

Dude, let me know when you post it. That's something I wanna read.

Mariam · Jul 23, 2015

GohanLSSJ2 said:
It depends wether or not Lincoln is on the scene. If he is, their chances are slim. But if not, they have a chance to get some territory back. Although I really like the idea of Mexico ending up ANNEXING the entirety of Dixieland. Lets see those racist assholes' faces when the Mexicans run them over!

I'm not convinced that Mexico will be able to keep that territory under their control though, especially if the US feels eager for a reconquest shortly after.

twovultures · Jul 23, 2015

Firebrand said:
I'm not convinced that Mexico will be able to keep that territory under their control though, especially if the US feels eager for a reconquest shortly after.

They probably wouldn't want to keep all of it. If by some miracle they conquered the whole CSA, they'd probably gladly hand over the Mississippi and all land east of it to the U.S. to save themselves the headache of trying to run it. The question is, what happens to the southwest?

By propping up the Native American tribes and maroon communities (as they did IOTL, but IITL they're doing it from a better military position) the Mexicans have created a formidable guerilla force against US revanchism. Tribes like the Kiowas and the Comanches will be resurgent, their main enemies in the form of Texas settlers militarily crushed by the Mexicans, so the US may not want to mess with the southern plains at least until the northern plains are under control (though of course resurgent Plains Indians could very well bite the Mexicans in the ass).

Now manifest destiny may still see the US make moves on the southwest, but I think they really could allow Mexico to claim very large chunks of the former Confederate territory while focusing on the inevitable CSA guerilla resistance in the form of some Alt-TL Ku Klux equivalent.

TheYoungPretender · Jul 23, 2015

Emperor Julian said:
Generally, CSA victory TLs wank the Confederacy, and frequently do so at the expense of Mexico and Cuba. So I was thinking, what if the opposite occurred?

Let's say some independent Southern breakaway gains its independence successfully by the mid 1860s using a POD whenever we please. Let's say that it controls the Arizonan and New Mexican territory claimed in OTL. Let's say that this CSA, taking a cue from the many TLs on this site, invades Mexico in hopes of gaining more territory and a Pacific coastline. What happens if they lose, badly, and Mexico takes the CSA's Arizonan and New Mexican territory and the Texan territory they claimed in the Mexican American War?

Considering the... <ahem> "cultural tendencies" of the Lost Cause in the US, I think this ideas sounds absolutely amazing.

Shinsu · Jul 23, 2015

I would like to ask how Mexico even could? It was still kinda.. you know.. in the middle of a civil war itself which didn't end until mid 1867.

GohanLSSJ2 · Jul 23, 2015

Shinsu said:
I would like to ask how Mexico even could? It was still kinda.. you know.. in the middle of a civil war itself which didn't end until mid 1867.

True that. But maybe the act of being invaded by the Confederates may very well provide the impetu for the Mexicans to start fighting together, especially if they catch wind of the "gringos" making ethnic Mexicans (and possibly, disenfranchised Tejanos) slaves in the land they grab from Mexico.

Emperor Julian · Jul 23, 2015

Shinsu said:
I would like to ask how Mexico even could? It was still kinda.. you know.. in the middle of a civil war itself which didn't end until mid 1867.

I doubt the CSA would invade immediately after becoming independent after a tough war themselves. They'd probably wait until the 1870s before attacking Mexico

GohanLSSJ2 · Jul 24, 2015

Emperor Julian said:
I doubt the CSA would invade immediately after becoming independent after a tough war themselves. They'd probably wait until the 1870s before attacking Mexico

True, though knowing the Southerners... They might get a little too gun-ho due to being on a rush after having beaten "those damn yankees!"

Richter von Manthofen · Jul 24, 2015

A "Southern Victory" of any Kind might also Change the fate of Mexico.

THE Mexican Empire was (with French Support) doing nicely and if AZ/NM is CS territory the empire might catch Juarez in El Paso.

Emperor Julian · Jul 24, 2015

GohanLSSJ2 said:
True, though knowing the Southerners... They might get a little too gun-ho due to being on a rush after having beaten "those damn yankees!"

Well, in that case, it's two war-torn nations fighting each other.

Nocrazy · Jul 24, 2015

How about the civil war and the mexican war become one and the same? Like, the Mexican Empire ends up fighting with the Confederates?

GohanLSSJ2 · Jul 24, 2015

Nocrazy said:
How about the civil war and the mexican war become one and the same? Like, the Mexican Empire ends up fighting with the Confederates?

How would that work, though?

M79 · Jul 25, 2015

Maximilian is killed but Mexican Conservatives decide better Jefferson than Juarez. Yucatan, Nuevo Leon, and Coahuila would likely go quickly, Tama pulas might also be encouraged to follow. Sonora, Chihuahua, and Baja California were Juarez strongholds but would be key to Pacific access so they would be ripe targets.

GohanLSSJ2 · Jul 25, 2015

You know what would be really ironic?

The Mexicans grabbing the white Confederates and forcing them to work on "haciendas" to pay the "costs of war".