Earliest possible "Stargate SG-1"?

phx1138 · Sep 10, 2015

What it says on the tin.

Presuming the movie is needed first, what's the earliest practical date to do a show like it? I'm thinking it could replace "Time Tunnel"...

The physics to back up the Stargates dates to 1925 (IIRC), so that's not a deal-breaker.

And who'd be making it? Not Irwin Allen or George Pal.

(I've never seen anything good by either of them.

)

Thoughts?

trurle · Sep 10, 2015

1960. Need an atomic bomb, widespread television and Cheyenne mountain complex for the plot.

phx1138 · Sep 10, 2015

trurle said:
1960. Need an atomic bomb, widespread television and Cheyenne mountain complex for the plot.

To have the exact same show, maybe. Not necessarily for a comparable show.

Something featuring "tunnels through space" could very well be done in '40s as a serial. Maybe in the '50s, too. (Not at all sure the SPFX are really up to it yet, tho.))

Ferreti · Sep 10, 2015

phx1138 said:
To have the exact same show, maybe. Not necessarily for a comparable show.

Something featuring "tunnels through space" could very well be done in '40s as a serial. Maybe in the '50s, too. (Not at all sure the SPFX are really up to it yet, tho.))

Well, Roland Emmerich copied the plot and the basic idea from a German book series from the 70s. So, if you still want to go this route you can already have it in the seventies.

phx1138 · Sep 10, 2015

Ferreti said:
Well, Roland Emmerich copied the plot and the basic idea from a German book series from the 70s. So, if you still want to go this route you can already have it in the seventies.

That's one way of doing it.

I'm wondering if couldn't have used Heinlein's The Puppet Masters (1951), or maybe Jack Finney's The Body Snatchers (1954), as inspiration... OTL, Finney's led to the 1956 film. I'm not sure RAH would have sold the rights, so soon after "Destination Moon".

Tom_B · Sep 10, 2015

In Aristotelian terms I am struggling to identifying what you regard as essential aspects of Stargate SG-1 as opposed to merely accidental. I would point that Chariot of the Gods was the inspiration for Stargate (Dr. Jackson is based on von Daniken) so a show before its publication in 1968 would be quite different. What you could get is a show even in the 50's centered on the discovery of a "stargate" but instead of a ring it would be a platform with some controls. Characters step on the platform, controls are set, there is a sound effect and then they're gone. Next shot is Planet XYZ where there is a similar platform. First it's empty then there is a sound effect and the characters are there (Both Lost in Space and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea did this a lot. It's a real cheap special effect and so will appeal to producers) Team steps off XYZ platform and go meet with Queen Cleolanta and get into a fist fight with her minions.

phx1138 · Sep 10, 2015

Tom_B said:
In Aristotelian terms I am struggling to identifying what you regard as essential aspects of Stargate SG-1 as opposed to merely accidental. I would point that Chariot of the Gods was the inspiration for Stargate (Dr. Jackson is based on von Daniken) so a show before its publication in 1968 would be quite different. What you could get is a show even in the 50's centered on the discovery of a "stargate" but instead of a ring it would be a platform with some controls. Characters step on the platform, controls are set, there is a sound effect and then they're gone. Next shot is Planet XYZ where there is a similar platform. First it's empty then there is a sound effect and the characters are there (Both Lost in Space and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea did this a lot. It's a real cheap special effect and so will appeal to producers) Team steps off XYZ platform and go meet with Queen Cleolanta and get into a fist fight with her minions.

Looking at that description, I'm thinking "ST:TOS" more than "SG-1"...

I'd say the Gate itself, plus goa'uld (by any name), are essentials. Jackson & Carter could be amalgamated (& I'd make Jackson a woman); the weakness of Jackson's character (& a major reason Shanks wanted out) was the inherent limits placed on him by the stories. (Yes, that was more the writers not knowing how to use Jackson's knowledge; stories more like the "first Mitchell"/"Merlin's trial" episodes would have been good for him.) I do think you need *Teal'c (in the same way "ST" needed Spock, or "ST:E" Shran); the jaffa connection was good (for a U.S. "support of freedom fighters" angle; even more likely before OTL). (I'd have thrown in a Korea/Vietnam ref, depending on when it is, with support for the Unas' rebellion.) I liked the connection to mythology (tho the Asgard being "little grey men" was a bit much

). And the idea of the Ancients essentially "engineering" humanity

deserved to be strangled its crib.

Beyond that, IMO, it's pretty wide open.

Dain · Sep 10, 2015

Stargate obviously needs the Gate to be a recognizable franchise.

Ferreti · Sep 10, 2015

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Gate_%E2%80%93_Das_Original

I have to correct my self, the book series that according to Emmerich himself inspired hin in part was from 1985 and called Stargate.

They rebooted it in 2005 and called it Stargate das Orginal (literally Stargate the original one)

Electric Monk · Oct 5, 2015

Well we have the answer, 1969-70, given TV lag times because Chariot of the Gods is essential. That gets the goa'ould in some form, we can handwave a gate (jump points using gates existed in SF novels of the time, albeit usually in deep space), and the characters are probably pretty different

.

If we need something real close to SG-1, then as also mentioned 1986-7 because of the '85 German book. Emmerich makes a TV show instead of a movie. That gets us a very very similar show in set-up, but of course different writers and different times will make it a radical departure.

If you want earlier than either of those two answers, we need to change publication dates for whatever reason on them to be earlier (author write faster, has idea earlier, whatever), which I dunno, perhaps there's some German interview with the author where he says he came up with the idea in 1970 but couldn't sell it for a while

or let's say there is, in which we're back to early 1970s SG-1.

Hmmm. Early 1970s (perhaps better mid-to-late for cost reasons?) sounds like a fun SG-1. Late 1980s SG-1 I dunno, probably too rah rah in that time period.

MattII · Oct 5, 2015

I'd say as soon as the graphics of the gate itself can be faked.

AlternateHistoryFan · Oct 5, 2015

Discussing my favorite sci-fi TV show!!

I never thought of Daniel Jackson as Eric Von Danniken--interesting association.

phx1138 · Oct 6, 2015

Electric Monk said:
1969-70, given TV lag times because Chariot of the Gods is essential. That gets the goa'ould in some form

I'm not sure that's essential. The goa'uld were simple parasitic aliens; that wasn't new even in the '50s. (The "alien astronaut"/pyramid landing site angle was a nice touch, but not essential IMO.)

The SPFX were pretty cheesy in the '50s & '60s...but if the Gate effect is shot from several angles & then simply edited in, it could be done at a reasonable cost, no? (It's likely to be less impressive, but I can live with that.

) Also, the Gate itself need not be a fancy effect; it's just a wild set element, right?

AlternateHistoryFan said:
Discussing my favorite sci-fi TV show!!

Happy to oblige.

I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. (I should confess, tho, my fave episode of the Stargate canon was the "CSI Atlantis" one, second-last "SGA" did...

)

AlternateHistoryFan said:
I never thought of Daniel Jackson as Eric Von Danniken--interesting association.

That seemed pretty obvious to me from the outset. It disappointed me they didn't use Daniel better.

They had Carter, & the writers didn't seem to know how to use the historical/archaeological stuff as plot hinges well enough.

(When they did, tho, like the "Merlin's treasure" story, it was nicely done.)

zert · Oct 7, 2015

Could the idea of this be merged with Rodenberry's Star Trek? The Gate in place of the transporter. Still cheesy special effects but may do the job.

AlternateHistoryFan · Oct 7, 2015

zert said:
Could the idea of this be merged with Rodenberry's Star Trek? The Gate in place of the transporter. Still cheesy special effects but may do the job.

Good one. Somebody actually did a Stargate-Start Trek--Xover fanfilm.

phx1138 · Oct 7, 2015

zert said:
Could the idea of this be merged with Rodenberry's Star Trek? The Gate in place of the transporter. Still cheesy special effects but may do the job.

I'm seeing *"Stargate" the exact opposite of Gene's vision of the future. His was hopeful, even utopian; "Stargate" would be very dystopian, IMO, paranoid & violent.

If it's done in the '50s, tho, I'd nominate Mark VII Productions (Jack Webb's outfit) to do it, if only to keep it out of the hands of George Pal or Irwin Allen.

(I've never seen anything from them that was actually good.

)

Hammerbolt · Oct 7, 2015

One more problem: SG did not have gate addresses to travel to, apart from Abydos. If I remember correctly, They used massive computing to figure out valid addresses. So even if you can power up the gate, somehow, you can't figure out how to use it unless you have addresses.

MattII · Oct 7, 2015

No, they initially used the ones they got off Abydos (of which there were at least hundreds, apparently), all except Heliopolis, which the 1945 team must have found by luck.

zert · Oct 7, 2015

I did not mean an actual SG Star Trek merge. Just some of the ideas from each concept.

As for getting the addresses to other locations, maybe they find some old phone books?

If madevin the late 50s/60s, could they build up enough fan base to sustain a show?

Mr_ Bondoc · Oct 7, 2015

If you have Dr. Samantha "Sam" Carter, then the date has to be c. 1972. Up until that point, it was assumed that women couldn't "realistically" participate in combat operations.