Designed to conform to the expected results of the 1935/36 2nd London Naval Treaty in mind these OTL 35,000 Ton fast Battleships where initially intended to mount 12 * 14" Guns in 3 turrets - however the threat of an escelator clause and non-signitories like Japan resulting in some nations developing modern ships with 16" guns the design was reduced to 10 guns with the Superfiring 'B' Turret redesigned as a twin and improvements instead made to the design's armor scheme while keeping the 'Dry' weight to 35,000 Tons.
In an ATL I am creating a 'Cold war' during this time between Britain and France vs Italy over the invasion of Ethiopia that raises tensions greater than OTL effectively resulting in the 2nd LNT failing.
So the DNC (Director of Naval Construction) freed from the artificial constraints but concious of the need to build new ships sooner rather than later is directed to use the best parts of the existing and previous KGV Design's to come up with a happy medium
My suggestions are as follows
Return to the previous design of 3 Quad Turrets rather than 2 and a superfiring twin
Continue to use the 14" Gun as the ground work is already laid out and they are ready to be built.
The main delay as I understand it was the Superfiring twin that had to be designed (the quads where already designed)
- I had considered using Triple 15" mk2s or even Triple 16" mk2s but both would result in unacceptable delays and when you cut through all of the negativity surrounding the 14" guns they performed no worse than anyone else's gun systems and were quite capable of punching holes in all other peoples Battleships then under construction or in service. And the potential ROF advantage of a 12 gun ship vs a 8 or 9 gun ship is obvious
- The other option was to build multiple 'Vanguards' using existing stock and removing turrets from the Revenges (effectively scrapping them).
The problem with this is that while initially it looks simple - pull the turrets out of one ship and plop them into another - improving the twin 15" to the 'n' standard (as per a 'Warspite' refit) required a lot of work (the shell and powder rooms were reversed for example) and is not nearly as simple as you might think.
And while the Revenges might not have been modern they were well armed and armoured and a threat to any other Battleship in the late 30s - and they represented 1/3rd of Britains Captial ship fleet at this time (and more so as a number of the Queens and BCs are also under refit during this period) - so I cannot see them being withdrawn from service before new ships can replace them. They were also useful as Convoy escorts where their slow speed (approx 20 knots) was not a handicap.
Armor scheme wise make the suggested improvements to the armour layout taking the weight hit - the ship will have to be slightly longer as well to incorporate the 3rd Quad turret instead of the Twin and so improvements to the machinery should be made to bring the total 'Emergency' SHP to 150,000.
I am guessing that this should be good for 30 odd Knots?
Secondaries - again the twin 5.25" gets a bad press but like the 14" it proved to be a useful duel purpose gun system - although it did not deliver the promised ROF it was still quite impressive
10 Twins are incorporated into the design - with 5 twins per side - with 2 Directors
AAA - events in the Med during the late 30s (in my ATL) result in the effectiveness of the 2 pounder pom pom and quad .50 cals being seriously questioned - and a study reveals that the Bofors 40/60 and 20mm cannon systems make for better AA weapons and these are used in the design (both the Pom pom and .50s Vickers quad still see a great deal of service but are generally replaced in all new builds and refits from 1938).
The UP system is stillborn in this time line and not used
8 Quad Bofors and are fitted along with 4 Twins and 12 single 20mm Cannon (this will have tripled by 1944)
Hanger and Launch facilities
The temptation is to drop these in favor of saved weight and additional / improved weapons etc after all these are not needed as much as we would expect - largely due to radar - however in 1937 when these ships are laid down - thats still an unknown - and in the early part of the war the aircraft can prove to be useful (See Warspites Aircraft at 2nd Narvik) - so I am keeping those as OTL - 4 Walrus, Hanger facilities and a catapult.
Despite being slightly larger and heavier I would actually expect these ships to be built slightly faster as My understanding is that the Superfiring Twin 14" turret redesign caused a significant delay.
Anyway bit of a thought dump - thoughts?
In an ATL I am creating a 'Cold war' during this time between Britain and France vs Italy over the invasion of Ethiopia that raises tensions greater than OTL effectively resulting in the 2nd LNT failing.
So the DNC (Director of Naval Construction) freed from the artificial constraints but concious of the need to build new ships sooner rather than later is directed to use the best parts of the existing and previous KGV Design's to come up with a happy medium
My suggestions are as follows
Return to the previous design of 3 Quad Turrets rather than 2 and a superfiring twin
Continue to use the 14" Gun as the ground work is already laid out and they are ready to be built.
The main delay as I understand it was the Superfiring twin that had to be designed (the quads where already designed)
- I had considered using Triple 15" mk2s or even Triple 16" mk2s but both would result in unacceptable delays and when you cut through all of the negativity surrounding the 14" guns they performed no worse than anyone else's gun systems and were quite capable of punching holes in all other peoples Battleships then under construction or in service. And the potential ROF advantage of a 12 gun ship vs a 8 or 9 gun ship is obvious
- The other option was to build multiple 'Vanguards' using existing stock and removing turrets from the Revenges (effectively scrapping them).
The problem with this is that while initially it looks simple - pull the turrets out of one ship and plop them into another - improving the twin 15" to the 'n' standard (as per a 'Warspite' refit) required a lot of work (the shell and powder rooms were reversed for example) and is not nearly as simple as you might think.
And while the Revenges might not have been modern they were well armed and armoured and a threat to any other Battleship in the late 30s - and they represented 1/3rd of Britains Captial ship fleet at this time (and more so as a number of the Queens and BCs are also under refit during this period) - so I cannot see them being withdrawn from service before new ships can replace them. They were also useful as Convoy escorts where their slow speed (approx 20 knots) was not a handicap.
Armor scheme wise make the suggested improvements to the armour layout taking the weight hit - the ship will have to be slightly longer as well to incorporate the 3rd Quad turret instead of the Twin and so improvements to the machinery should be made to bring the total 'Emergency' SHP to 150,000.
I am guessing that this should be good for 30 odd Knots?
Secondaries - again the twin 5.25" gets a bad press but like the 14" it proved to be a useful duel purpose gun system - although it did not deliver the promised ROF it was still quite impressive
10 Twins are incorporated into the design - with 5 twins per side - with 2 Directors
AAA - events in the Med during the late 30s (in my ATL) result in the effectiveness of the 2 pounder pom pom and quad .50 cals being seriously questioned - and a study reveals that the Bofors 40/60 and 20mm cannon systems make for better AA weapons and these are used in the design (both the Pom pom and .50s Vickers quad still see a great deal of service but are generally replaced in all new builds and refits from 1938).
The UP system is stillborn in this time line and not used
8 Quad Bofors and are fitted along with 4 Twins and 12 single 20mm Cannon (this will have tripled by 1944)
Hanger and Launch facilities
The temptation is to drop these in favor of saved weight and additional / improved weapons etc after all these are not needed as much as we would expect - largely due to radar - however in 1937 when these ships are laid down - thats still an unknown - and in the early part of the war the aircraft can prove to be useful (See Warspites Aircraft at 2nd Narvik) - so I am keeping those as OTL - 4 Walrus, Hanger facilities and a catapult.
Despite being slightly larger and heavier I would actually expect these ships to be built slightly faster as My understanding is that the Superfiring Twin 14" turret redesign caused a significant delay.
Anyway bit of a thought dump - thoughts?