BR CV 91 makes into Gibraltar on 15/11/41
- Thread starter Ward
- Start date
sharlin
Banned
So the British Carrier CV 91 arrives in Gibraltar on the 15/11/1941 .
How much of a difference would this one ship make on the Course of the War if she had survived the torpedo hit .
Tbh not much, it would have eased some pressure for the RN and given us another flight deck to play with but her survival is not really a war winner.
Assume six months repair? She might be ready again to cover the summer Malta convoys. Another deck at Pedestal would increase Axis losses further, but convoy losses would probably be similar and you'd have to expect another spell in the repair yards, based on the experiences of Eagle, Indomitable and Victorious.
Saphroneth
Banned
So the British Carrier CV 91 arrives in Gibraltar on the 15/11/1941 .
How much of a difference would this one ship make on the Course of the War if she had survived the torpedo hit .
No CV in the name. It's "British carrier HMS Ark Royal, pennant number 91" (or pendant number at that time). But they're basically always referred to by name in the RN.
Indeed
Had she not been abandoned prematurely (the Horror of HMS Courageous was still Fresh in everyones mind - and this upper most in his mind the Captain chose to save his highly skilled crew) then I beleive that she could have been saved.
Repaired and modernised - I suspect that she would have been utilised for the role for which she had been made - opposing the Japanese and joined the far East fleet.
Ark Royal as part of Force Z ???
Last edited:
No time for that, even if she's undamaged. The best to be hoped for is some role in the Indian Ocean Raid, but that's asking for trouble...
No I suppose not - Damaged in Mid Nov 41 doesn't leave very long before Force Z sorties!
It would be Early 42 before she was seaworthy again
So maybe as you say, part of Sommervilles force during the Indian Ocean Raid
Not sure why thats asking for trouble (or anymore trouble than OTL?)
As I understand it Sommerville's force came very close to launching a night attack on Kido Butai - perhaps with the addition of Ark Royals experianced Airgroup there was a greater chance of this happening.
Sure, with the Ark there's a better chance of hitting them at night, and if all else goes as OTL then the RN carriers will escape unharmed.
OTOH, the presence of the Ark might make Somerville tweak his plans a bit, act more aggressively maybe, and since AIUI to launch an attack he had to move his carriers inside the IJN's strike radius, then it's conceivable that he gets spotted and attacked.
OTOH, the presence of the Ark might make Somerville tweak his plans a bit, act more aggressively maybe, and since AIUI to launch an attack he had to move his carriers inside the IJN's strike radius, then it's conceivable that he gets spotted and attacked.
AIUI he was already inside their strike radius during the night - its just he never found them and retired before day light
With an extra carrier providing search aircraft who knows - IMO the plusses to the British outweight the negatives!
deathscompanion1
Banned
Unless the search aircraft are followed home and he loses the British fleet.
The interesting thing is, she was almost torpedoes just three days before HMS Conqueror, but managed to dodge them. If one or both torpedoes had hit and gone off, then the British would have learned just how rugged the Ark was, which might have saved her later.
Not unless she completely missed the torpedoes, she was too far out of position.
If she gets clobbered but not sunk then yeah she'll be back in service by early '42 with a few upgrades. After that (assuming she don't get sunk some other way), she'd probably end up like the Illustrious class carriers, worked hard during the war and mostly worn out at the end.
She might be modernized along the line of Victorious but she's a few years older and will probably have a few ongoing issues from the battle damage. Probably she's struck in the late 40's and the Ark Royal (IV) is commissioned as OTL. Someone might try to save her as a museum but given the fact that all the OTL survivor carriers were broken up I doubt it.
She might be modernized along the line of Victorious but she's a few years older and will probably have a few ongoing issues from the battle damage. Probably she's struck in the late 40's and the Ark Royal (IV) is commissioned as OTL. Someone might try to save her as a museum but given the fact that all the OTL survivor carriers were broken up I doubt it.
Works both ways - and the British have radar and know how to use it!
deathscompanion1
Banned
Battle of Coral Sea:
Japan: 127 aircraft
USA: 128 aircraft
Battle of Midway:
Japan: 248 carrier-based aircrafthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway#cite_note-2
USA: 233 carrier-based aircraft and 127 land-based aircraft all told 360.
OTL Indian ocean raid
Royal Navy:
Britain: 100 Aircraft
Japan 350 Aircraft
If you add in Ark Royal you have 50 or 60 more British aircraft so still outnumbered badly and many of these were swordfish so even more outclassed than the Dauntless'.
And yet at Midway it was a single squadron of Dauntless Dive bombers in the right place at the right time that tipped the balance
If the British stuck first on the night of 5th April and mission killed or sunk a single flat top (or worse) then the Jap's would have run - had they attacked and missed the Japanese still would have run.
They have a time table to keep and a finite number of assets with which to keep it with.
The Aircraft might not have been as good as the better Japanese planes but if they had found the Japs at night as intended then that advantage counts for nothing as the IJNs night fighting ability was far below that of the RN.