Habsburg Bavaria instead of Hungary by 1600

  • Thread starter Deleted member 1487
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Deleted member 1487

How could you get Bavaria to be part of the Austrian Empire under the Habsburgs instead of Hungary by 1600 and hold it to the 20th century (its fine if it joins as a kingdom of greater Germany under the Hasburgs by then)?
From the below map Duchy of Bavaria, Nordgau, Bohemia, Moravia, Istrian March, March of Verona, and the three green stripped Austrian Marches.

Holy_Roman_Empire_1000_map-en.svg
 
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Driftless

Driftless

Donor
This sounds interesting.

However, I'm not able to see the map. Do others have that problem, or just me?
 

funnyhat

It's interesting that Germany's eastern borders then were virtually the same as now. Also, that France apparently controlled the entire Belgian coast - there are some big butterflies if that holds to the present day.
 

Deleted member 1487

funnyhat said:
It's interesting that Germany's eastern borders then were virtually the same as now. Also, that France apparently controlled the entire Belgian coast - there are some big butterflies if that holds to the present day.
Click to expand...
Not sure if France did then, this just shows what was in the HRE and not what's outside of it.
 

Deleted member 1487

Just an update from the OP in case anyone missed it:
have Bavaria be part of the Habsburg Empire by 1600, but not Hungary, and maintain it at least to the 20th century, with it being fine if the Habsburgs join a unified Germany with their territories or they lead it themselves.
 

De von Of

Does it have to be Habsburgs or can it be Babenberger to? (I'm asking because the map is still definitely at the time of the Babenberger.)

If yes, you can just let Conrad III live a few years longer and have Heinrich Jasomirgott become duke of Bavaria permanently, butterflying the Privilgium Minus. (Which would ironcally also butterfly the formation of an independent Austrian culture and state.)

If it has to be Habsburgs, inheritance will always be your best chance. Get them and the Wittelsbacher to agree to a marriage contract like the OTL one with the house of Luxembourg.

Edit: Ninja's
 

Deleted member 1487

De von Of said:
Does it have to be Habsburgs or can it be Babenberger to? (I'm asking because the map is still definitely at the time of the Babenberger.)

If yes, you can just let Conrad III live a few years longer and have Heinrich Jasomirgott become duke of Bavaria permanently, butterflying the Privilgium Minus. (Which would ironcally also butterfly the formation of an independent Austrian culture and state.)

If it has to be Habsburgs, inheritance will always be your best chance. Get them and the Wittelsbacher to agree to a marriage contract like the OTL one with the house of Luxembourg.

Edit: Ninja's
Click to expand...

Run with your idea, because I'm more interested in what a unified Austro-Bavaria would look like, especially if it includes Bohemia too.
 

De von Of

The problem with the idea of including both Bohemia and Bavaria is, that while one marriage contract would be plausible, (Habsburg-Wittelsbach instead of Habsburg-Luxembourg) two contracts would certainly implausible.

A possible scenario that includes both Bavaria and Bohemia is to have Ladislaus Postumus survive and be successfull, but eventually lose Hungary to Hunyadi.

After that he only needs to inherit Bavaria (you could marry him to some Wittelsbach princess) and fix the mess with the multiple Habsburg lines.
 
Driftless

Driftless

Donor
Wasn't Bavaria still primarily Catholic by 1600? The bulk of Lutheran population was north of there?

I realize there was a lot more politic going on, but the religious element would have some significance, wouldn't it?
 

De von Of

Driftless said:
Wasn't Bavaria still primarily Catholic by 1600? The bulk of Lutheran population was north of there?

I realize there was a lot more politic going on, but the religious element would have some significance, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

The best chance for this to work if the Austria/Bohemia/Bavaria union starts long before the reformation.
 

Deleted member 1487

De von Of said:
Much stronger Poland/Poland-Lithuania is more likely. There where tons of attempts to form an union between Poland and Hungary to oppose the Ottomans.
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What would that look like? Could we see a surviving Poland?
 

De von Of

wiking said:
What would that look like? Could we see a surviving Poland?
Click to expand...

That the depends:

Will the Union hold?
Will the Ottomans still smash through southern Europe?

Also, we're talkng about the 15th century here, the fall of Poland is anything but certain.
 

Janprimus

Bohemia-Austria-Bavaria will be in an excellent position to reclaim Hungary, especially once the Ottoman's become Hungary's main threat. Especially since by 1600 most of Hungary was both in non Hungarian and non Habsburg hands.
 
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