WI: The British Empire discovered the Americas before Christopher Colombus?
- Thread starter SirSpecko
- Start date
I agree. In 1492, England was just recovering from decades of infighting known as the war of the roses. Although it had annexed Wales and Ireland, Scotland would still be an independent nation for the next century. Even if an English sailor would have stumbled on any part of America by chance, the English crown would most certainly not even realize the potential of this discovery, let alone act on it, even if it had the means. I see a long list of European countries discovering parts of America before England does.
Part two. Let's assume that another nondescript European state would discover America before Columbus: Here it depends on where they land and when: Newfoundland? The Southern US seaboard? Florida? The Caribbean islands? Mexico? Are the Mayas in power already? How far advanced is Europe in shipbuilding? In weaponry (firearms)?
A great deal would also depend on the country itself: Is it a trading nation or city-state? A slave-trading one? Does it have the population surplus to establish a colony? How does it regard the natives? Is it Christian enough to see it as their duty to launch a large-scale conversion operation? May be even a crusade? How does it regard other races? How does it regard intermarriage?
just too many unknowns to even think about an answer.
A great deal would also depend on the country itself: Is it a trading nation or city-state? A slave-trading one? Does it have the population surplus to establish a colony? How does it regard the natives? Is it Christian enough to see it as their duty to launch a large-scale conversion operation? May be even a crusade? How does it regard other races? How does it regard intermarriage?
just too many unknowns to even think about an answer.
I don't see England begin colonisation process on 1490's. Tudors had too much domestic worries that it could try to create colonial empire. Henry VII's claim for throne wasn't very strong (him had only drop royal blood on his veins) and there was still Yorkist claimants. Even Henry VIII had same problems. And Scots and French were problems for England.
Henry VIII had less problems than his dad though. If you butterfly Columbus somehow (maybe have him not get any patronage from Spain) then Henry is the sort of king who might go in for funding exploration if he thought there was something to gain from it.
Emperor-of-New-Zealand
Kicked
Since when did discussions on this site boil down to pointless nitpicking? Obviously the OP did not literally mean 'Britain'; what they're looking for is a New World founded by the English. Shouldn't need to scroll through three posts saying the exact same damned thing for no reason.
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Anyway, as others have said, England was recovering from a period of civil war. I don't think they'd be willing to finance such an expedition, let alone do any actual colonising. Could they get in on it earlier, though? Perhaps. They don't need to be first in to get a different slice of American pie to OTL.
PhilippeO
Banned
If Henry VII or VIII captain did find New England or Newfoundland, would the Pope even give them recognition of their claim ? Everybody would first assume that its just large island with fishing as main economic benefit, so its possible that English claim is not contested by anybody.
Then when Portuguese find Brazilian coast, everybody would also assume that simply separate, unconnected southern island. It would be decades before either British or Portuguese find out about Caribbean or Mexico.
Then when Portuguese find Brazilian coast, everybody would also assume that simply separate, unconnected southern island. It would be decades before either British or Portuguese find out about Caribbean or Mexico.
Assuming England did discover America under Henry VIII, who could afford it, a lot would depend on where they discovered it. North America means settler colonies and the Caribbean means plantations. If you mean the Aztec and Inca Empires, and the English conquered them, it could completely screw the development of England as a constitutional state. The funds going to the monarchy would kean absolutist rule could be maintained and uniformity enforced on all of Britain and Ireland. That could prevent the industrial revolution.
GdwnsnHo
Banned
Well, if he's read any history, a fantastic way to deal with rebellious nobles is to send them to the ass-end of nowhere where they are dependent on you for survival, and are no threat.
Yorkists suddently find themselves leading American colonies?
He'd have a lot of money if he had the sense NOT to waste it all on invading France and getting betrayed by Maximilian.
Now could England/Britain/whatevs colonise? sure. Fishing isn't always a bad idea, although the British Isles are already surrounded. Anyone familiar with what else was in the Newfoundland area that a King would like (it would be useful to encourage further expeditions) - This is a crucial step to overcome.
Go far enough south to find Furs? Fantastic, who needs Russian furs now?
Go further to find Tobacco? Hello Tobacco Plantations
Go further to find good sugar growing land? If the English can start growing some, then that is going to be VERY profitable.
To be honest, get to Furs, and you'll already have enough reason to create a serious of resource colonies/trading posts. If they aren't obsessed with Gold (which a colonial expedition that isn't inspired by stories of Spanish gold isn't likely to be) then chances are you'll have trading posts galore, and lots of money for British coffers. If that grows enough and cultures like the Caddo don't die out from disease, then unless someone else from Europe comes along, we could see trading colonies, followed by settler colonies.
Before I say anything, I'll preface it with a warning that I'm pretty ignorant of English history.
Anyways, the weakness of the monarchy may actually make colonisation more likely. If the king can be convinced that there are a lot of riches in the New World, he may well see that as an opportunity to take control of a source of wealth not already controlled by an ambitious nobleman.
Anyways, the weakness of the monarchy may actually make colonisation more likely. If the king can be convinced that there are a lot of riches in the New World, he may well see that as an opportunity to take control of a source of wealth not already controlled by an ambitious nobleman.
What would be effects on other countries? Sure, they may not realise it's new continent but surely soebody wold start poking around. If nothing else then "If English discovered one island we may discover another" logic.
It comes down to relative wealth and power. England is recovering from a decades long civil war and is relatively speaking something of a backwater. Spain on the other hand is flourishing and is probably at her strongest both militarily and financially. Even if England discovers the americas first (ofc they wouldn't be known as the americas then
), she is relatively speaking not in a very strong position to exploit it. The blood stained boots of the Conquistadors would almost certainly still smash their bloody path through the natives
You would need to have a PoD that butterflies away or at least significantly reduces the impact of the Wars of the Roses and also weakens Spain, a longer and bloodier reconquista perhaps?
), she is relatively speaking not in a very strong position to exploit it. The blood stained boots of the Conquistadors would almost certainly still smash their bloody path through the nativesYou would need to have a PoD that butterflies away or at least significantly reduces the impact of the Wars of the Roses and also weakens Spain, a longer and bloodier reconquista perhaps?