Robert E. Lee VS The KKK

We've had a few threads about a resistance movement post-ACW. Reading about it gave me a fun little mental scene of President Grant personally asking Lee to head up the anti-resistance crack down (obviously much nicer named than that). Probably circa 1868 or a little before that. Basically in this scenario there are multiple Confederate resistance cells that are attacking Federal troops and pretty much causing everyone (black or white) problems and sustaining bad blood North v South.

If this is not plausible I would still be interested in discussing a scenario of how such a resistance could form and how it could help improve Civil Rights in the long term (w/ greater Northern control over the South).
 

jahenders

Banned
The resistance cell idea is certainly possible, but they'd likely be pretty small. Otherwise, the US might feel that the CSA as a whole is really continuing the war. They'd probably be quite brutally suppressed and would lead to a much tougher reconstruction for the South.

As far as Lee being involved to suppress this, I see two big problems:

1) I'm not at all sure he'd accept, primarily because he wouldn't want to be seen as "fighting against his own people" (his claimed reason for fighting for the CSA in the first place). In reality, I think he'd want to be very careful about being tainted by association with the North (as some Southerners who supported the US in the ACW were forever disliked in the South).

2) Not at all sure Grant would/could offer it. First, Lee supported several opponents of Grant and opposed Grant's reconstruction plan (favoring, of course, Johnson's). Second, it would be hard for Grant to sell the idea of putting the recently defeated rebel leader in charge of troops charged with suppressing other former rebels. Also, until late 1868, Lee still hadn't been given a full amnesty.


We've had a few threads about a resistance movement post-ACW. Reading about it gave me a fun little mental scene of President Grant personally asking Lee to head up the anti-resistance crack down (obviously much nicer named than that). Probably circa 1868 or a little before that. Basically in this scenario there are multiple Confederate resistance cells that are attacking Federal troops and pretty much causing everyone (black or white) problems and sustaining bad blood North v South.

If this is not plausible I would still be interested in discussing a scenario of how such a resistance could form and how it could help improve Civil Rights in the long term (w/ greater Northern control over the South).
 
Also nothing I know of the man indicates that he was at all opposed to the doctrines of the KKK. He might have been more sophisticated than the average grand wizard but he was around as racist.
 
No matter how much respect these two had for each other between 1865 and Lee's death in 1870, in all honesty, i do not think that Lee would ever accept, and Grant would not ask.
 
No matter how much respect these two had for each other between 1865 and Lee's death in 1870, in all honesty, i do not think that Lee would ever accept, and Grant would not ask.

Yes. I question why Grant would use a Southerner and prominent former Rebel to attempt to put down a rebellion in the South.
 

RousseauX

Donor
We've had a few threads about a resistance movement post-ACW. Reading about it gave me a fun little mental scene of President Grant personally asking Lee to head up the anti-resistance crack down (obviously much nicer named than that). Probably circa 1868 or a little before that. Basically in this scenario there are multiple Confederate resistance cells that are attacking Federal troops and pretty much causing everyone (black or white) problems and sustaining bad blood North v South.

If this is not plausible I would still be interested in discussing a scenario of how such a resistance could form and how it could help improve Civil Rights in the long term (w/ greater Northern control over the South).

Lee dies in 1870 and thus wouldn't have that big an impact on the reconstruction.

The biggest impact would actually be on the lost cause ideology and Lee's reputation. Historically he earned it by staying above the fray and dying before he got caught up by post-war politics.

But Lee's reputation is effectively going down the same road Longstreet's did post-war if he becomes an enforcer for the federal government, which is to say that Jubal Early and the Southern Historical Society now has a reason to tear down Lee and deitify someone else. Lee takes the blame along with Longstreet for the two invasions of the North and their failures. Someone like Stonewall Jackson becomes the #1 god figure in the south.
 
The resistance cell idea is certainly possible, but they'd likely be pretty small. Otherwise, the US might feel that the CSA as a whole is really continuing the war. They'd probably be quite brutally suppressed and would lead to a much tougher reconstruction for the South.
Well I'm glad that it's plausible at least! Who would be likely candidates for this Southern Resistance? Would there be any of the OTL-KKK that would not be comfortable fighting the Feds (something they avoided IOTL) or any former Confederate generals that might want to get involved?
As far as Lee being involved to suppress this, I see two big problems:

1) I'm not at all sure he'd accept, primarily because he wouldn't want to be seen as "fighting against his own people" (his claimed reason for fighting for the CSA in the first place). In reality, I think he'd want to be very careful about being tainted by association with the North (as some Southerners who supported the US in the ACW were forever disliked in the South).
Well, I know that he became President of a college. What if some crazier members of this mega-KKK harassed his students or apart of his college? Might this affect him, maybe not to action but to words for peace?
2) Not at all sure Grant would/could offer it. First, Lee supported several opponents of Grant and opposed Grant's reconstruction plan (favoring, of course, Johnson's). Second, it would be hard for Grant to sell the idea of putting the recently defeated rebel leader in charge of troops charged with suppressing other former rebels. Also, until late 1868, Lee still hadn't been given a full amnesty.
Fair enough. I was thinking that Grant is tired of bloodshed (which IMO he certainly was) and might think that the Confederate cells would surrender to their old General Lee. But you are right, putting Lee in charge is problematic. Maybe he's an adviser?
Also nothing I know of the man indicates that he was at all opposed to the doctrines of the KKK. He might have been more sophisticated than the average grand wizard but he was around as racist.
Fair enough, although this ATL-KKK is more anti-Northern in addition to anti-black. Lee definitely wanted a soft reconstruction OTL and this new resistance threatens to ruin that... and potentially push the South to utter ruin.
No matter how much respect these two had for each other between 1865 and Lee's death in 1870, in all honesty, i do not think that Lee would ever accept, and Grant would not ask.
Yes. I question why Grant would use a Southerner and prominent former Rebel to attempt to put down a rebellion in the South.
To quote myself from above: "I was thinking that Grant is tired of bloodshed (which IMO he certainly was) and might think that the Confederate cells would surrender to their old General Lee. But you are right, putting Lee in charge is problematic. Maybe he's an adviser? "
Lee dies in 1870 and thus wouldn't have that big an impact on the reconstruction.

The biggest impact would actually be on the lost cause ideology and Lee's reputation. Historically he earned it by staying above the fray and dying before he got caught up by post-war politics.

But Lee's reputation is effectively going down the same road Longstreet's did post-war if he becomes an enforcer for the federal government, which is to say that Jubal Early and the Southern Historical Society now has a reason to tear down Lee and deitify someone else. Lee takes the blame along with Longstreet for the two invasions of the North and their failures. Someone like Stonewall Jackson becomes the #1 god figure in the south.
You pretty much hit it on the head - that's pretty much what I'm looking for. I would like to see an ATL where the Lost Cause movement is largely discredited and a harsher reconstruction that eliminates any good feelings for the Confederacy while also improving Civil Rights. Is that just too much to ask? :D

Anyways guys, I'm not super attached to the Lee idea (although it does make fun fiction). Any thoughts on a Confederate resistance in general and how that prolongs Reconstruction?
 
Fair enough. I was thinking that Grant is tired of bloodshed (which IMO he certainly was) and might think that the Confederate cells would surrender to their old General Lee. But you are right, putting Lee in charge is problematic. Maybe he's an adviser?


You would have to want to make Lee want to be involved. I do not think he would want to leave his retired life, which he felt very content with. That was why he stayed at Washington College.
 
You would have to want to make Lee want to be involved. I do not think he would want to leave his retired life, which he felt very content with. That was why he stayed at Washington College.
To quote myself again (sorry about this):

"What if some crazier members of this mega-KKK harassed his students or apart of his college? Might this affect him, maybe not to action but to words for peace?"

Obviously it's a really stupid thing to do. But they are the KKK. ;)
 
To quote myself again (sorry about this):

"What if some crazier members of this mega-KKK harassed his students or apart of his college? Might this affect him, maybe not to action but to words for peace?"

Obviously it's a really stupid thing to do. But they are the KKK. ;)

He might say a few words for the sake of peace, but he will not be leaving that college to take an active role.

I do not see him leaving a place where he is at peace, and believes he can do the most good.
 
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