AHC: Thai elephant offer accepted by Lincoln

Escape Zeppelin · Mar 6, 2015

Yesterday's circus elephant news got me thinking about possible elephant related PODs.

During the US Civil War the king of Siam offered to send the US a large supply of elephants for the war effort and breeding stock. Lincoln politely declined and pointed out elephants wouldn't do very well in most of the US.

What scenario would lead to Lincoln accepting the offer and more importantly the use of elephants is considered enough of a success that the army maintains them for some period after the war?

jczak97 · Mar 6, 2015

Well, aside from this seeming pretty unlikely but for the sake of argument, lets say that the Union experiences an event that kills off most of the pack animals (I don't know much but lets say a disease kills off a good chunk of the donkeys, cows and horses). Know that the Union is in a deep need for beasts of burden they take up the Siamese offer.

As for this to be considered a success lets say that they perform much better than any animal previously being able to help transport cannons and supplies while also being able to be used to break tight formations of Confederates.

Bit of a stretch but hey not horribly impossible.

Corjomc · Mar 6, 2015

Well if they put Hannibal Hamlin in charge of them . . .

iddt3 · Mar 6, 2015

Corjomc said:
Well if they put Hannibal Hamlin in charge of them . . .

He can pick up the Elephants in California and march them across the Rockies! The Confederates will never expect it!

Zek Sora · Mar 6, 2015

iddt3 said:
He can pick up the Elephants in California and march them across the Rockies! The Confederates will never expect it!

But the Confederates might send Stonewall Scipio to distract him before he can reach Richmond!

Puzzle · Mar 6, 2015

How accurate was Civil War artillery? Could they expect to reliably hit an elephant? I don't imagine elephants would have any place in the actual fighting but it is an amusing image.

Baron Bizarre · Mar 6, 2015

Puzzle said:
How accurate was Civil War artillery? Could they expect to reliably hit an elephant?

Better ask John Sedgwick about that.

Nivek · Mar 6, 2015

Baron Bizarre said:
Better ask John Sedgwick about that.

Those were sharpshotter not artillery

Driftless · Mar 6, 2015

Any counterpart role to the US Camel Corps? Mr. Lincoln was willing to allow for experiments.

No real clue where or how you would employ elephants, unless you had skilled handlers. Maybe use them to help unload trains on un-improved railroad sidings? A muscle-and-bone forklift?

jczak97 · Mar 6, 2015

Ok, so i remember playing Medieval Total War 2 and the Timurids had Elephants with cannons on them, whether that's true or not idk, but what if you were to strap a Gatling gun on top of one. If you were to do that you'd have a mobile platform to move and use Gatling Guns at will. Plus imagine Custer using Elephant Mounted Gatling Guns at Little Big Horn

Zek Sora · Mar 6, 2015

Baron Bizarre said:
Better ask John Sedgwick about that.

rekt

wildviper121 · Mar 6, 2015

jczak97 said:
Ok, so i remember playing Medieval Total War 2 and the Timurids had Elephants with cannons on them, whether that's true or not idk, but what if you were to strap a Gatling gun on top of one. If you were to do that you'd have a mobile platform to move and use Gatling Guns at will. Plus imagine Custer using Elephant Mounted Gatling Guns at Little Big Horn

I don't think the elephant would like all that noise so close to its ears. (Plus, depending on how far back you mounted the gun, you could end up with the elephant's head between you and your target)

Jared · Mar 6, 2015

I'd be more interested in the ecological effects of large numbers of elephants being released at the end of the ACW. Are there areas where they'd get established?

wietze · Mar 6, 2015

Jared said:
I'd be more interested in the ecological effects of large numbers of elephants being released at the end of the ACW. Are there areas where they'd get established?

latin& south america seems a much better place for them

jczak97 · Mar 6, 2015

wildviper121 said:
I don't think the elephant would like all that noise so close to its ears. (Plus, depending on how far back you mounted the gun, you could end up with the elephant's head between you and your target)

The Mughals mounted swivel cannons to camels and other animals, and used elephants to move cannons so i don't see why without a little training they'd get used to the sound. As for where to put them, aside from building a platform to elevate the gun i have no idea

Jared · Mar 6, 2015

wietze said:
latin& south america seems a much better place for them

The southern US looks just fine for them - climate wise, it's similar to the natural range of Asian elephants today. Florida in particular, but also the southern portions of Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi etc.

Imagine Sherman's March to the Sea with elephants as pack animals. No doubt the marchers would hate having to feed elephants, given the volume of food they consume, so many of them would be left to go wild.

Then the elephants start breeding in Georgia...

wietze · Mar 6, 2015

climatewise yes, but would think in latin& south more abundant food for them

how about bayou elephants?

wcv215 · Mar 6, 2015

Puzzle said:
How accurate was Civil War artillery? Could they expect to reliably hit an elephant? I don't imagine elephants would have any place in the actual fighting but it is an amusing image.

The elephants were for logistics, not fighting IIRC.

Edit: Turns I I didn't remember correctly, explained later in the thread.

leopard9 · Mar 6, 2015

The sheer amount of goods elephants can carry across rugged areas might be enough for the army to keep them around for a while. And I agree, mounting cannons on the top of elephants' heads could very well be possible. Imagine Sherman's March to the Sea with hardened soldiers and war elephants

. After the war, the elephants could be put to work during Reconstruction to help rebuild the South, especially if you get a breeding program going. And Florida would be a good place for elephants. Pythons and elephants...toss a few leopards and tigers in there and you've got India.

Velocis · Mar 6, 2015

leopard9 said:
The sheer amount of goods elephants can carry across rugged areas might be enough for the army to keep them around for a while. And I agree, mounting cannons on the top of elephants' heads could very well be possible. Imagine Sherman's March to the Sea with hardened soldiers and war elephants . After the war, the elephants could be put to work during Reconstruction to help rebuild the South, especially if you get a breeding program going. And Florida would be a good place for elephants. Pythons and elephants...toss a few leopards and tigers in there and you've got India.

Problem with Elephants in battle is with all the loud noises and bullets, they were liable to turn around and trample your men. Not a very effective creature for battles, as they are so hard to control and unpredictable.