Evolution of Surviving Arianism?

If the Arian faith was able to persevere in at least one part of Dark Age Europe throughout the era (into at least the 12th century), how would it evolve over time (in general, liturgical, doctrinal or practical terms?)

Possible candidates include the Vandals, Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Suevics among others.
 
Biggest problem with surviving Arianism has to cope with is that the Roman Catholic Church will endeavour to eliminate it just as they did using various methods Arianism on OTL, the Celtic Church, Cathars and pagans.

The best places for Arianism to survive is Scotland and Scandanavia. Such locations are hard to put crusaders into. However, sooner or later the Roman Catholics will move with foreign princess and money as they did in Spain and England on OTL. The best bet then for the Arians is to flee to Iceland and other edges of the then known world.

If it can then hold out it will probably remain steady state. Being on the fringes is not conducive to theological development.
 
If the Arian faith was able to persevere in at least one part of Dark Age Europe

Dum-Dum-Duuuuuum!

First, and that's quite important to point on this question, calling this non-Nicean faith Arianism is a bit misleading. Generally "Homeism" is preferred, as a softcore equivalent of Arianism, that never really worked in Romania (in imperial and post-imperial times).

The distinction is important, as Homeism was far less radically distinct from Nicean beliefs (at the point that when one switched side, it wasn't considered as a conversion, and didn't required a baptism) : in fact, it was purposely vague about dogmatic issues, and eventually relatively compatible (with an increasing mix with Orthodox beliefs with time, would it be only because Barbarians could switch to Niceanism to Homeism or the reverse : see Suevi or Burgundians)

Giving that the main part of the population was Orthodox, not Homean, in Romania (including Roman elites and giving the role of Bishops and Counts in Barbarian Kingdoms, it wasn't a detail).

What prevented Homeism to disappear earlier than IOTL was it was considered as an identitarian feature marking "Barbarity" (and even there, political events played fully : Alaric II religious policy hints at tentatives of "union"), distinguish them (while they more and more romanised with time) and Romans. More the population became a mix between Roman and Barbarian features, more it became irrelevant.

Basically, in order to have a survival of Homean beliefs (or, more exactly, lack of radically different beliefs), you'd need a PoD with Roman emperors doesn't favour Nicean clergy and continue to favour Homeism as they did for a time.

But at the point where Barbarians are fully integrated within a massively Nicean population and institution...It's going to be hard if not impossible, and the vagueness of Homeism doesn't really help there (its de facto disapperance was really quick after Romano-Barbarian kings rejected it).

At best, let's say with a Visigothic hegemony over Western Europe, you could see a form of "union" between Homeism and Niceanism, not unlike later tentatives of monothelism (except with far less radically distinct beliefs).

If not...maybe something like a local influence, not lasting very long and not likely to be absorbated, as IXth century Adoptianism.
 
At best, let's say with a Visigothic hegemony over Western Europe, you could see a form of "union" between Homeism and Niceanism, not unlike later tentatives of monothelism (except with far less radically distinct beliefs).
Such a PoD would require either the Visigoths to repel the Franks from modern day France or the Isalmic invaders from Spain. The catch is that the Visigoths in Spain were a noble class who ruled over Romano-native peasants and thus there was always a potential fifth column against them.

In addtion, it was the convention of the era that wives adopted their husband's version of Christianity. The Roman Catholics had a track record from breaking this from a Frankish princess whose name I can not recall who married a Visigoth to St Margaret of Scotland.

A union between the Homeism and Niceanism would only work if the Roman Catholics do not "cheat". That will certainly some sort of development such as Rome in non Catholic hands and/or no Pope.
 
Such a PoD would require either the Visigoths to repel the Franks
Probably : as said above, Alaric II was undergoing some religious "union" at this point before Franks managed to get Gallo-Roman elites on their side and to advance South.
In fact, a good PoD may be having Franks turning Homeans in the early Vth century, instead of turning Niceans in the late Vth. It may neutralize Frankish hegemony in Gaul (while probably not butterflying it in Belgica and Northern Gaul).

The catch is that the Visigoths in Spain were a noble class who ruled over Romano-native peasants and thus there was always a potential fifth column against them.
Quite at the contrary : you never had a native religious revolt in Romano-Barbarians kingdoms (Vandalic religious troubles are more a social struggle than really religious, barely touching the whole population), and the whole idea of a native religious threat never was really taken in account.

If something, the threat was more about other ruling classes, regardless of their origin (as Hermengild in Visigothic Spain) than peasants (critically with the usual commitment of Romano-Barbarians kings to preserve, as heirs of imperium in Western Romania, a certain form of "religious plurality")

The whole idea of an ethnic ruling class was prooved wrong too many times to be maintained : Barbarians were a mix of different groups, and Roman elites weren't the last to get integrated partially (Syagrii in southern Gaul, Vicentus in the Ebre, etc.)

In addtion, it was the convention of the era that wives adopted their husband's version of Christianity.
Less one's husband than his sippe's, as can be pointed by the choice of support in religious establishment by Brunhilde. Basically, it's about more joining a factional/clanic group "values" (the aformentioned identitarian marker) than individual switch.

And giving that the percieved differences between Homeism and Niceanism were...say limited, usually a real conversion wasn't necessary (with exceptions as Brunhilda, but that's maybe more a litterary device from Gregorius to paint her as a great queen*, as nothing his aid about Galswintha). It's more a change of practices, made easier by the vagueness of Homean "dogmas"

*After all, Gregorius doesn't stop to paint "Arianism" as diabolical, which is to be expected from a bishop, but doesn't really paint the political/social reality in its entierty

The Roman Catholics had a track record from breaking this from a Frankish princess whose name I can not recall who married a Visigoth
I suppose it's Ingund?

That her union with Hermeneglid may have played a role is possible (but remember she was particularly young at this time, and not really able to play a decisive one), but eventually Roman pressure (Hermenegild and Gondovald's revolts participating to a same strategy) and critically Hispano-Roman pressure (Reccared didn't have to marry a Nicean woman to switch, after all) probably played more, while Gregorius is, unsurprisingly, mostly silent on it.

to St Margaret of Scotland.
It's a different case there : at this point, Roman church was definitely a thing, and we're more in the final decline of "national" western churches than a real dogmatic change (these being essentially pastoral at this point, the differences between Scottish and Roman practices being really limited).

A union between the Homeism and Niceanism would only work if the Roman Catholics do not "cheat".
Thing is, you didn't have Romans Catholics to speak off up to the VIIIth century. Papacy was essentially a moral power, without real pastoral or dogmatic (and of course, not political) power in Romano-Barbarians kingdoms were the chiefs of the "national" churches were the bishops and, of course, the kings; as pointed out by the many regional synods and councils.

Meaning that, with a Visigothic hegemony (and critically keeping dynastical succession in Gothia), the center of decision would be in courts, not in Rome (that would be too busy being kept under Ostrogothic control to really have its say).

I admit that a form of union between Homean and Nicean isn't an obvious outcome (as said above, it's only the "best" I could find without Late Roman Empire holding by Homeism), but it's a possible one and already engaged IOTL by Alaric II : it would certainly have been at least partially successful, eventually, giving the lack of "radicality" in Homeism. Of course such union, because of that, would have been made in favour of a more well defined Niceanism.
 
Biggest problem with surviving Arianism has to cope with is that the Roman Catholic Church will endeavour to eliminate it just as they did using various methods Arianism on OTL, the Celtic Church, Cathars and pagans.

The best places for Arianism to survive is Scotland and Scandanavia. Such locations are hard to put crusaders into. However, sooner or later the Roman Catholics will move with foreign princess and money as they did in Spain and England on OTL. The best bet then for the Arians is to flee to Iceland and other edges of the then known world.

If it can then hold out it will probably remain steady state. Being on the fringes is not conducive to theological development.

Scenario: Scandinavia and Iceland becomes Arian. Arianism reaches North America through Greenland. Gradually Catholicism wins over Arianism in Scandinavia, and there are many Arians who go to Iceland, and it is therefore pressure to emigrate further to Greenland and America. Could one see an early Scandinavian migration to America driven by religious persecution?
 
I do think that a better scenario is one in which Chalcedonian Christianity never truly consolidates itself somehow, allowing many early heresies to spread like wildfire.
 
I do think that a better scenario is one in which Chalcedonian Christianity never truly consolidates itself somehow, allowing many early heresies to spread like wildfire.

That's probably going trough Christianism never being adopted by Emperors as an imperial (and institutional) faith. After the early IVth century, being supported by the imperium means being eventually consolidated on political grounds, one way or another.
 
By the way, what role did the Armenian kingdom play in establishing what should be considered orthodox Christianity? Christianity was also the official religion in Armenia. Did they simply accept the same doctrine as the Romans or were they already in line with what the Romans were to consider Orthodoxy?
 
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By the way, what role did the Armenian kingdom play in establishing what should be considered orthodox Christianity?
Insignificant. Armenia wasn't the only policy whom ruling classes adopted Christianism independently from Rome : Axum is another known exemple, but you have smaller ones.
Eventually, the political distinction (Church being organised along political lines, rather than universally) made the role of Armenia virtually absent (safe participation to some Chalcedonian councils)

Did they simply accept the same doctrine as the Romans or were they already in line with what the Romans were to consider Orthodoxy?

Armenian Church was organised independently, on its own lines that became more and more divergent with an Orthodoxy that was defined by Roman imperial power for its own proper needs. If something, it was way more influenced by Roman church, trough imperial and political influence (as relative acceptance of monoenergism in pre-Arab conquest situation) than it ever influed on eastern Christiendom, to say nothing of the whole of it.
 
Insignificant. Armenia wasn't the only policy whom ruling classes adopted Christianism independently from Rome : Axum is another known exemple, but you have smaller ones.
Eventually, the political distinction (Church being organised along political lines, rather than universally) made the role of Armenia virtually absent (safe participation to some Chalcedonian councils)



Armenian Church was organised independently, on its own lines that became more and more divergent with an Orthodoxy that was defined by Roman imperial power for its own proper needs. If something, it was way more influenced by Roman church, trough imperial and political influence (as relative acceptance of monoenergism in pre-Arab conquest situation) than it ever influed on eastern Christiendom, to say nothing of the whole of it.

So the Armenian Church changed its theology in the direction of Roman orthodoxy? Did its position on Christology change as that of the Roman Empire changed? If so, what was its position before it changed?
 
Basically, in order to have a survival of Homean beliefs (or, more exactly, lack of radically different beliefs), you'd need a PoD with Roman emperors doesn't favour Nicean clergy and continue to favour Homeism as they did for a time.

Please indulge my naivety here, but what about surviving outside of ex-Roman territory, in for example (what would later be known as) Germany? Surely if the beliefs of the Romanized elites were the problem, this could be avoided by lacking them...?
 
So the Armenian Church changed its theology in the direction of Roman orthodoxy?
Not really : they were tendencies to do so in the IVth or VIth centuries, for exemples, but they eventually aborted.

While Christology evolutions were partially influenced by what happened in Romania (mostly because we're talking of the neighbouring Christian superpower), it remained non-Chalcedonian as a large part of eastern Romania churches. It really had a chance to be unified (but not merged) with Orthodoxy with monoenergism, but that's due to the political success of Constantinople sattelizing/absorbating parts of Armenia.

Please indulge my naivety here, but what about surviving outside of ex-Roman territory, in for example (what would later be known as) Germany? Surely if the beliefs of the Romanized elites were the problem, this could be avoided by lacking them...?
Christianisation implies (and requires in the same time) a herarchic structuration, whatever Nicean or Homean, would it be only trough sheer cultural/polical mimetism; and implies a certain form of Romanisation.

Without that...well, Christianisation (from whatever beliefs) is eventually more superficial : Barbarian polities on the Middle Danube (as Lombards or Gepids) didn't launched a lasting Homeisation of these territories.

It's worth noting that Barbarian Christianisation is often largely tied to political matters (and that would remain true with Constantinople) : you had mission to convert Goths as a people early on, but not that much for Western Germanic peoples at the exception of most threatening (as Burgundians), which made pre-Clovis Franks looking as a religious patchwork (Pagans, Niceans, Homeans, Jews...).
In order to have a deeper Christianisation of Germanic people, especially in what would be known as Germany instead of Danubian peoples or peoples already present within Romania, you'd need a political motive, IMO.
 
In order to have a deeper Christianisation of Germanic people, especially in what would be known as Germany instead of Danubian peoples or peoples already present within Romania, you'd need a political motive, IMO.

Something like someone trying to take control over the whole region and promoting Christianity to cement their rule (a la the Romans, then and later)?
 
Something like someone trying to take control over the whole region and promoting Christianity to cement their rule (a la the Romans, then and later)?

As for what matter politics, Christiendom is Romanity in this period, I was more thinking about Rhineland Barbarians (hegemony, league or confederation) being more important ITTL and Roman missionaries being more present due to a greater level of interaction (which eventually means ethnic mixity, and mutual influence as with Romano-Goths as Ulfilas), with eventually not only more missionaries but as well more official support (as Ulfilas recieved IOTL) : IOTL the christianisation of Franks or Alamans was pretty much low on the list of priorities.

Not that they weren't partially Christianized IOTL, but it was more of a slow process, not much institutionalised on both sides before the early MA.

But something made later would still have to deal with a massively Nicean population, including among Romano-Barbarians (institutionalisation of a religion/belief doesn't mean the whole of people followed it)

Didn't Arianism influence Islam?

It's quite unlikely : there's no known significant Arian or Homean presence in Eastern Romania after the Chalcedonian Councils.

Islam is probably more influenced by beliefs we know being present : Monophysism, Miaphysism, Orthodoxy, Nestorianism and Judeo-Nazoreism, for exemple. Non-trinitarism and Christology isn't limited to Arianism or Homeism.
 
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