WI: A French schlieffen plan

Ultima770 · Jul 31, 2015

What if the French had their own contingency to go through Switzerland or even Belgium.

Of course it begs the question as to why in the world would they do something as dumb as that? I would say Belgium because they wouldn't except the French to act so irrationally and neither would the Germans.

As for Switzerland, I mention that because I hear the country had mixed views. A majority being pro-German. Would direct Swiss involvement cause a schism in their Confederation? Thereby causing that front to collapse and allow the French to advance to the German or Austrian border?

Matteo · Jul 31, 2015

Do you know the geography of Switzerland ?

KACKO · Jul 31, 2015

Matteo said:
Do you know the geography of Switzerland ?

However I believe during WWI either there were some theoretical studies in France to go through Swiss lowlands on French border or Swiss were afraid French will do that. Don't remember exactly. It was mentioned in book on Swiss armed forces I read years ago.

Emperor Palpatine · Jul 31, 2015

Ultima770 said:
What if the French had their own contingency to go through Switzerland or even Belgium.

Of course it begs the question as to why in the world would they do something as dumb as that? I would say Belgium because they wouldn't except the French to act so irrationally and neither would the Germans.

As for Switzerland, I mention that because I hear the country had mixed views. A majority being pro-German. Would direct Swiss involvement cause a schism in their Confederation? Thereby causing that front to collapse and allow the French to advance to the German or Austrian border?

They would not go through Switzerland. Switzerland is too mountainious and therefore a real headache to invade. They would invade through Alsace Lorraine as per Plan 17.

Albidoom · Jul 31, 2015

Also not to forget that the Rhine runs largely along the German-Switzerland border, so unless the invasion is very fast the French will just end up at yet another hard to break through position.
I know technically Basel and Schaffhausen are Swiss "bridgeheads" north of the Rhine but I guess in case of France starting an invasion then the Germans might as well extend their Troops to secure better defensible positions.

Glenn239 · Jul 31, 2015

Ultima770 said:
What if the French had their own contingency to go through Switzerland or even Belgium.

Of course it begs the question as to why in the world would they do something as dumb as that?

If France captures the Ruhr the war is over.

Nestor · Jul 31, 2015

I recall reading somewhere that in 1917 the French were considering invading Switzerland in an attempt to outflank the Germans in Alsace, but I can't find anything else on it.

Michel Van · Jul 31, 2015

if France Military get true Belgium it would let to a insane situation

Britain would intervene against France to protect Belgium.
because two treaties Britain and Belgium sign in 19 century.
it defined Belgium it's neutrality and obligate Britain to intervene military in case this neutrality is desecrated

Raunchel · Jul 31, 2015

Michel Van said:
if France Military get true Belgium it would let to a insane situation

Britain would intervene against France to protect Belgium.
because two treaties Britain and Belgium sign in 19 century.
it defined Belgium it's neutrality and obligate Britain to intervene military in case this neutrality is desecrated

That probably wouldn't happen, that treaty was signed by a whole bunch of nations, and can always be ignored when there are more important things, such as ensuring that Germany doesn't become dominant.

Dalekiller · Jul 31, 2015

Raunchel said:
That probably wouldn't happen, that treaty was signed by a whole bunch of nations, and can always be ignored when there are more important things, such as ensuring that Germany doesn't become dominant.

1914 <cough>, if the French get permission (not too unbelievable if the Belgians see the German armies coming) then all is well.

However invading is kicking Britain in the face, and they dont like being kicked diplomatically.

Deleted member 1487 · Jul 31, 2015

Kiss British support goodbye. The military did offer that option to French politicians IOTL and they were told to stay away from the Belgian border.

wilji1090 · Jul 31, 2015

wiking said:
Kiss British support goodbye. The military did offer that option to French politicians IOTL and they were told to stay away from the Belgian border.

Would it really be that simple? I'd like to think that if anything, Britain would quietly pressure King Albert to allow the French to pass. Maybe I'm underestimating how much the British guarded Belgian neutrality?

Deleted member 1487 · Jul 31, 2015

wilji1090 said:
Would it really be that simple? I'd like to think that if anything, Britain would quietly pressure King Albert to allow the French to pass. Maybe I'm underestimating how much the British guarded Belgian neutrality?

No, the Belgians were very serious about their neutrality and the British didn't want either the French or Germans to dominate the Channel. I don't see the British being particularly interested in letting the French through at all, certainly the public wouldn't like it, and the French were convinced IOTL that any trespass in Belgium would inflame the anti-war types in France AND piss off the British.

pompejus · Jul 31, 2015

Michel Van said:
Britain would intervene against France to protect Belgium.

No they wouldn't, but it makes militairy intervention on the side of France a lot less likely. Pro-French neutrality and maybe late intervention is the best France can hope for, but Britain will not intervene on the German side.

Ultima770 · Aug 1, 2015

It would definitely put a dent in French and UK relations for the coming years, especially after the war. Should this plan fail, I see no reason why Germany wouldn't lose.

WI: A French schlieffen plan

Deleted member 1487

Deleted member 1487