The 20s without WW-I

We assume that the Great War not happen (the Archduke Franz Ferdinand lives, and a good agreement between the European powers is reached).
In a timeline without WW-I how change the "roaring" 20s?
We have about the same 20s of OTL,with the same fashions,music,lifestyle?
We have flappers in short skirts and bobbed hairs,art decò style,charleston dance?
In United States we have prohibition and same economic increase?
And with a less financial growth,the 1929 wall street crash (and the great depression) happen in same way?

Without the terrible release of war, society might not rebel so fiercely against the past. I'm guessing a slower change in fashions, attitudes.
Of course the automobile would be more commonplace by then, but would it have the same boost in production?
Also, the rise of motion pictures, and later, radio.

A lot of the art styles, particularly Art Noveau and Art Déco, were already forming prior to WWI, so I don't see why they wouldn't come to prominance, if only slower and less universally.

Complete prohibition might not come to the US, because the inclusion of beer was in part inspired by a desire to spite German immigrants. Congress might outlaw distilled liquor for a time, and such a move could have worldwide impact.

I presume also nothing "lost generation"..well was a thing for very few,but had great influence on the image of that decade).
No Great Gatsby?

Europe not exhausting and tearing itself apart in a 4 year total war means that there's more money to be spent on consumption which means more automobiles on the roads, more radio sets in the households, more new houses built in the latest fashionable styles (liberty style / art nouveau was already on the way out, replaced by cubism and new objectivism by the early 1910's). The recession will come earlier, but will likely be less severe without the destruction of real capital caused by the war.

Dresses and costumes started to become both narrower and especially day (as compared to evening) costumes also shorter after the turn of the century, they reached the ankles around 1910 and about a hand's breadth above that by 1914, so there's no reason why this trend should not have continued just like IOTL, war or no war through the 1910's and 20's. Music should also not be substantially different, the foundations for 1920's Jazz and Charleston music styles were already in place by 1914.

We must remember that American culture in the twenties proceeded in relative isolation. American involvement in World War I was itself short and limited, known largely by the accounts of those who came back (and unfortunately, the loss of those who did not). Stateside, the Roaring Twenties still proceed, with Art Deco, Dadism terra cotta facades, flapper dresses, silent movies, Model T’s, etc. If prohibition does not outlaw beer and wine, organized crime does not blossom and the Cosa Nostra remains a relatively obscure family alliance arrangement among Sicilian immigrants.

Now, women can vote in all elections in all states. Fashions will “open up.” Now, what about night clubs. Before prohibition, many taverns were off limits to women. Some had troughs in front of the bar for spit and urine. Some communities had laws that prohibited women from entering “tippling houses” or “dram shops.” When all liquor moved to the secret “speakeasies,” the rules all disappeared. As for the ATL social scene, it will likely loosen, but more slowly.

What about Europe? With no WWI, we can assume that border tensions have been mutually settled (Germany/Belgium, Alsace-Lorraine, etc.). Moreover, millions of people will still be alive, contributing to a growing world economy. Of course, the German economy, and the Deutschemark, will not collapse in 1923. In OTL, World War I voided German patents and trademarks. Aspirin will remain a trademark of the Bayer company. Moreover, the Haber process for fixing atmospheric nitrogen into nitrate fertilizer would remain under German patent into the twenties. That could restrict the availability of electricity worldwide. How? The only other viable industrial process for fixing atmospheric nitrogen was the carbide-cyanamide process developed by Norsk-Hydro. No longer under patent, it consumed tremendous amounts of electricity to make fertilizer. With power grids coming on line to distribute hydroelectric power, competition might develop.



As for music and entertainment, it would change little. The big quantum leap in entertainment technology comes at the end of the decade when sound comes to motion pictures.


I would say the net result worldwide is a somewhat more prosperous twenties, worldwide. What happens afterwards is probably more significant, but the subject of this thread is the twenties.

flapper dresses

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But those fashions did not come from France ?

Mark E. said:

Dadism

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I know specifically dadaism was a direct reaction against the horrors of the war, so it plain won't happen. This also makes me suspicious of some artistic trends in general that I know less about.

It would be interesting to hear people's viewpoints

about how democracy would develop in Europe during this period, the social democrats were a huge force in Germany and Austria and the days of authoritarian monarchies seemed to be at an end, the transition period would be interesting.

Mark E. said:

We must remember that American culture in the twenties proceeded in relative isolation. American involvement in World War I was itself short and limited, known largely by the accounts of those who came back (and unfortunately, the loss of those who did not). Stateside, the Roaring Twenties still proceed, with Art Deco, Dadism terra cotta facades, flapper dresses, silent movies, Model T’s, etc.

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I think WW1 had a profound change on American back-home culture, even if it took years to shape. There were 4,000,000 mobilized +/- throwing many parts of then non-mobile society together. 2,000,000 +/- went to France, exposing many of the lower & middle class Americans to a larger world, at least to some extent. The proverbial "How do you keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Pareeeee." Hemingway is the poster boy for how the war culturally shaped the survivors.

No war, I think the US continues to grow by leaps and bounds. But foreign involvement and a wider outlook remains limited to the wealthy. I'm not sure what the US looks like in 1920.