Because Stalin dreads the possibility of a foreign invasion, the Soviets begin development of the atomic bomb in 1940. If the Soviets were to be the first to produce an atomic bomb, how might they have used in during World War II?
Soviets produce atomic bomb(s) during World War II
- Thread starter Montgomerie Ward
- Start date
They wouldn't. Once the Germans invade, the project will be scaled back to OTL 1942-levels so the resources can be diverted to, you know, winning the war with Germany.
What obsessed nuker said. It's not impossible that they could build them first, but they won't be able to if Germany invades.
Petlyakov Pe-8 was a 4-engine bomber that could carry a single 5000 kg high-explosive bomb (FAB-5000) which was larger and heavier than both "Little Boy" (4000 kg) and "Fat Man" (4500 kg). Pe-8 probably woudn't reach Berlin with an atomic bomb on board, but Konigsberg for example could be reached.
That runs on the assumption a Soviet bomb would be that small. Besides, according to that article, there weren't a whole lot of those built and they were beacons for the Luftwaffle.
marathag
Banned
[SIZE=+1]FAB 5000NG 1943[/SIZE]
Length: 5100 mm
Max. Diameter: 1000 mm Overall Weight: 5080 kg
Mk2 Fatman
Length: 3500 mm
Max. Diameter: 1500 mm Overall Weight: 4909 kg
Little Boy
Length: 3048 mm
Max. Diameter: 711 mm Overall Weight: 4404 kg
But the big problem is that after dropping from 30,000+ feet, you have 45 seconds to clear the area.
That means miles away. Pe-8 wasn't that fast or able to fly as high as the Silverplate B-29
That Soviet crew won't be able to clear the area in time.
Length: 5100 mm
Max. Diameter: 1000 mm Overall Weight: 5080 kg
Mk2 Fatman
Length: 3500 mm
Max. Diameter: 1500 mm Overall Weight: 4909 kg
Little Boy
Length: 3048 mm
Max. Diameter: 711 mm Overall Weight: 4404 kg
But the big problem is that after dropping from 30,000+ feet, you have 45 seconds to clear the area.
That means miles away. Pe-8 wasn't that fast or able to fly as high as the Silverplate B-29
That Soviet crew won't be able to clear the area in time.
The USSR doesn't have any domestic uranium sources developed yet and additionally the USSR's program was actually very poor. They were arguably even behind Japan with regards to scientific breakthroughs and access to materials.
Could the Pe-8 even carry a Fat Man, or any other contemporary Soviet aircraft for that matter? I know that Stalin was convinced that it was a purely strategic weapon and as such simply using it during Kursk or wherever would likely be ruled out. I wonder if they might try a 'test' on the Checnyans?
There's two effective solutions. First, a drag chute. Second, not caring about whether the crew can escape or not.
But to be honest, if by some miracle Soviets are able to make an atomic bomb they will be able to produce aircraft to carry it, too. Even 1929 Junkers G.38 was able to carry enough payload to carry an atomic bomb.
marathag
Banned
high speed drag chutes isn't as easy as you think.
Thats why the early US bombs had the big box fin with drag plates, as that was to reduce wobble as the bomb dropped as well as slowing it
The shock of opening of a big high speed chute was also a problem
You don't want to jar the bomb too much.
It took the USAF about two years to get it right
Prior to the onset of war, Stalin was called to a meeting with a circle of scientists and researchers on the atomic bomb project. They wanted the Politburo to channel Red Army funds into the extraction of uranium reserves in Kazakhstan, with which they could manufacture a bomb (the theory was all there). Problem is, the project would have cost big bucks, would have failed to yield any meaningful results for years, and proved a disproportionate drain on essential resources that could otherwise be channeled into conventional forces. The USSR might have to wait well into the 1950s to obtain its own bomb - a purely domestic venture would take far longer than it did IOTL, with stolen schematics from Western efforts -, and that's assuming it doesn't get cancelled halfway through out of more obviously pressing obligations ...
In terms of access to materials yes, but in terms of scientific expertise they were actually ahead of Japan and Germany. Men like Sakharov and Kurchatov, for example, were world-class physicists.
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People who never started a project were ahead of Germany since at least they weren't saved from killing all of their own scientists only by their own ineptitude.
Anyway, the USSR only managed a bomb in 1949, even with both peace and a trove of information stolen from the American project, finishing an atomic bomb by 1945 isn't happening.
Going with a POD where Stalin is an amateur physicist and becomes thoroughly obsessed with nuclear research, even at the cost of starving his people and cutting other projects (i.e. the mass deportations of several ethnic groups, killing all his commanders, and investing in more modern tanks), coupled with some OTL physicists by happenstance being Communists and moving to the USSR when the revolution ends there, let's say it happens.
Further, let's say the Germans invade Russia but due to certain PODs (Stalin did purge his military commanders) Russia finds itself in similar circumstances in 1941 (i.e. Moscow still holds out, Russian tanks are bigger pieces of junk, but the Germans are a very real and present danger.)
Now, let's say in May 1944, the USSR successfully tests the bomb. Probably using capture B29s that have been repaired, the USSR nukes Berlin and Budapest, leading to an all out collapse in the East. Hitler would probably not be in Berlin in 1944, so when this occurs he would want to fight on but would probably be assassinated or if decides to fight on, only with hold outs as their would be mass insurrection, especially coming off the heels of an Operation Bagration (which I imagine would be largely similar, but it would be using Sherman tanks and such from Lend Lease).
Immediately, I see the west cutting of Lend Lease and the Cold War being in effect near instantly. However, because Russia's tactical forces may be compromised by the POD (making them more reliant upon Lend Lease for machinery), the US probably does not ask for assistance in attacking Japan and the USSR cannot really force the issue militarily anyway. They just blown all their a-bombs away against Germany and Hungary, they don't want anyone to know they don't have enough nuclear material to make much more, nor quickly.
The Red Scare probably happens earlier. It is possible the USSR captures more German scientists (Werner von Braun for example) and they take the lead in rocketry. US will invest in its long-range bomber program, where they have a much greater advantage, but they will be behind in rockets.
With the bomb, the question is whether Russia reverses themselves on agreements made in Iran in 1943. I imagine that they would not and there are so many butterflies who knows how the Cold War goes. It probably only starts getting hot in Vietnam or the Middle East, as Korea won't be an issue.
Further, let's say the Germans invade Russia but due to certain PODs (Stalin did purge his military commanders) Russia finds itself in similar circumstances in 1941 (i.e. Moscow still holds out, Russian tanks are bigger pieces of junk, but the Germans are a very real and present danger.)
Now, let's say in May 1944, the USSR successfully tests the bomb. Probably using capture B29s that have been repaired, the USSR nukes Berlin and Budapest, leading to an all out collapse in the East. Hitler would probably not be in Berlin in 1944, so when this occurs he would want to fight on but would probably be assassinated or if decides to fight on, only with hold outs as their would be mass insurrection, especially coming off the heels of an Operation Bagration (which I imagine would be largely similar, but it would be using Sherman tanks and such from Lend Lease).
Immediately, I see the west cutting of Lend Lease and the Cold War being in effect near instantly. However, because Russia's tactical forces may be compromised by the POD (making them more reliant upon Lend Lease for machinery), the US probably does not ask for assistance in attacking Japan and the USSR cannot really force the issue militarily anyway. They just blown all their a-bombs away against Germany and Hungary, they don't want anyone to know they don't have enough nuclear material to make much more, nor quickly.
The Red Scare probably happens earlier. It is possible the USSR captures more German scientists (Werner von Braun for example) and they take the lead in rocketry. US will invest in its long-range bomber program, where they have a much greater advantage, but they will be behind in rockets.
With the bomb, the question is whether Russia reverses themselves on agreements made in Iran in 1943. I imagine that they would not and there are so many butterflies who knows how the Cold War goes. It probably only starts getting hot in Vietnam or the Middle East, as Korea won't be an issue.
You would not want to build the complex 'Fat Man' Plutonium bomb. The little boy Uranium bomb would be far easier to actualy construct & use. Refining the Uranium isotope is still very difficult, but compared to engineering the Fat Man implosion device it is still easier.