Patton Lives

Yossarian

General Patton died in a random car accident in December 1945, at age 60. What if this hadn't happened? At the time of his death he was apparently considering whether to take a stateside military post or retire. However, Patton doesn't seem to me like someone who would 'just fade away' so to speak.

Any thought on what he would have done, and what effect it would have had, if he had lived longer?
 

deathscompanion1

Banned
Yossarian said:
General Patton died in a random car accident in December 1945, at age 60. What if this hadn't happened? At the time of his death he was apparently considering whether to take a stateside military post or retire. However, Patton doesn't seem to me like someone who would 'just fade away' so to speak.

Any thought on what he would have done, and what effect it would have had, if he had lived longer?
Click to expand...

I'd like to see what he would do in Korea.
 
Daniwani

Daniwani

I'm no big expert, but I've heard people predict he might likely disgrace himself in Korea in a way much like MacArthur did.
 

deathscompanion1

Banned
Daniwani said:
I'm no big expert, but I've heard people predict he might likely disgrace himself in Korea in a way much like MacArthur did.
Click to expand...

Patton had an ego but I don't think he would go quite to the lengths MacArthur did to further it. He'd probably stop at Pyongyang like he was supposed to even if he would loudly talk about going all the way to the Yalu.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Patton was pretty much done. The War Department was willing to accept his behavior while there was a war going on, in peacetime his BS wouldn't have been anywhere near as acceptable.

Be serious surprising of he was granted any sort of age or service time waver. That puts him on the retired list by December 1949 at the latest, a month after his 64th birthday, although it could be as early as June 9, 1949 which would be the statuary 40 year maximum.
 

Locke01

Yossarian said:
General Patton died in a random car accident in December 1945, at age 60. What if this hadn't happened? At the time of his death he was apparently considering whether to take a stateside military post or retire. However, Patton doesn't seem to me like someone who would 'just fade away' so to speak.

Any thought on what he would have done, and what effect it would have had, if he had lived longer?
Click to expand...

Patton was scheduled for retirement after leaving the European theater. There was no stateside assignment awaiting him, and no possibility he would be given another overseas posting. Patton talked in his diary of resigning his commission so he could speak freely, but he had often threatened to do that throughout his career. I have my doubts he would have ended his career in the army in this way. Had he lived, he would have been written off as a lunatic the moment his ravings about Jews hit the front page. His fate would have been a sad one had he lived.
 
Cook

Cook

Banned
Yossarian said:
Any thought on what he would have done, and what effect it would have had, if he had lived longer?
Click to expand...

Patton had already been relieved of command of the US Third Army (on 7 October 1945), and of the military governorship of Bavaria at the same time, and had been given the sinecure command of the US Fifteenth Army, which by then consisted of little more than a headquarters staff compiling a history of the US army in the European Theatre of World War Two. He still had his foot in the door of the army, but only just; they’d given him an office in the hope that he’d be so bored he’d just leave, rather than them having to take the odious step of dismissing him.

Had he retired, he’d probably have done what most retired generals do and compile a memoir; refighting his most important battles (i.e. those against Eisenhower, Montgomery, Marshal, and Bradley).
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Don't forget, there had been a program to equip and

Don't forget, there had been a program to equip and train 30 light infantry divisions of the ROC in Yunnan for much of 1943-45 ("Y" Force) which were supposed to be brought up to the standards of the three ROC divisions (22nd, 30th, and 38th) trained at Ramgarh by Stilwell et al in 1943-44 as X Force and used quite effectively in Burma in 1944-45 as part of the NCAC.

If such a force had been raised in Yunnan, the basic operational concept is they would function as an actual mobile field army (within limits) along AUS lines; the Provisional Armored Group had been raised in Burma with six tank battalions (with integrated American and Chinese crews) to serve as a spearhead.

With the 14th AF for tac air, the combination would have been quite capable of ripping up the IJA that was left in China by 1945, but the problem, as always, is the CBI's strategic reach exceeded its operational grasp, due largely to a) logistics, and b) the reality the KMT did not want to fight the IJA in China, they wanted to fight the PLA.

If Eichelberger (8th), Hodges (1st) Krueger (6th), and Stilwell (10th) were the army commanders for OLYMPIC and CORONET, then the choices of general officers with experience at the army level is fairly limited; Gerow (15th), Patch (7th), Patton (3rd), Simpson (9th), and Truscott (5th) are the bench, and Patton or Patch (given his experience against the Japanese as a corps commander) would be likely candidates.

Afterwards, Patton would have been the obvious choice for the Armored Center, and if he retired in 1949, a military college position would seem likely - Norwich, certainly, given the armor connection; maybe Texas A&M, VMI, or Virginia Tech, given the Patton's Virginia roots. One of the UCs is a stretch, but not impossible; GSP's California roots were deep, as well.

GSP at Cal, UCLA, Davis, or Santa Barbara in the late 1940s, under Sproul, actually might have been a good fit; given the number of GI Bill students, and the fact the system had not really expanded yet, could have given George and Bea a peaceful "last go" before he retired for good.

Politics probably would not have interested him, at least not immediately; I don't see him as a legislator, and a mayoralty would be too small, but I certainly could see him as a gubernatorial candidate in California ... Hawaii would be another possibility; he had served there for two long tours during the interwar period...

There's a stereotype of Patton as being simply a warrior, but he had seen his share; there's a great clip on You Tube of GSP and Jimmy Doolittle at a bond rally in Los Angeles, after VE Day; it is worth finding and watching, and listening to what GSP had to say at that point in his life. The man had been a soldier for four decades by the end of WW II - he, like so many of his contemporaries, had seen enough of it.

Best,
 

Cryhavoc101

TFSmith121 said:
Don't forget, there had been a program to equip and train 30 light infantry divisions of the ROC in Yunnan for much of 1943-45 ("Y" Force) which were supposed to be brought up to the standards of the three ROC divisions (22nd, 30th, and 38th) trained at Ramgarh by Stilwell et al in 1943-44 as X Force and used quite effectively in Burma in 1944-45 as part of the NCAC.

If such a force had been raised in Yunnan, the basic operational concept is they would function as an actual mobile field army (within limits) along AUS lines; the Provisional Armored Group had been raised in Burma with six tank battalions (with integrated American and Chinese crews) to serve as a spearhead.

With the 14th AF for tac air, the combination would have been quite capable of ripping up the IJA that was left in China by 1945, but the problem, as always, is the CBI's strategic reach exceeded its operational grasp, due largely to a) logistics, and b) the reality the KMT did not want to fight the IJA in China, they wanted to fight the PLA.

If Eichelberger (8th), Hodges (1st) Krueger (6th), and Stilwell (10th) were the army commanders for OLYMPIC and CORONET, then the choices of general officers with experience at the army level is fairly limited; Gerow (15th), Patch (7th), Patton (3rd), Simpson (9th), and Truscott (5th) are the bench, and Patton or Patch (given his experience against the Japanese as a corps commander) would be likely candidates.

Afterwards, Patton would have been the obvious choice for the Armored Center, and if he retired in 1949, a military college position would seem likely - Norwich, certainly, given the armor connection; maybe Texas A&M, VMI, or Virginia Tech, given the Patton's Virginia roots. One of the UCs is a stretch, but not impossible; GSP's California roots were deep, as well.

GSP at Cal, UCLA, Davis, or Santa Barbara in the late 1940s, under Sproul, actually might have been a good fit; given the number of GI Bill students, and the fact the system had not really expanded yet, could have given George and Bea a peaceful "last go" before he retired for good.

Politics probably would not have interested him, at least not immediately; I don't see him as a legislator, and a mayoralty would be too small, but I certainly could see him as a gubernatorial candidate in California ... Hawaii would be another possibility; he had served there for two long tours during the interwar period...

There's a stereotype of Patton as being simply a warrior, but he had seen his share; there's a great clip on You Tube of GSP and Jimmy Doolittle at a bond rally in Los Angeles, after VE Day; it is worth finding and watching, and listening to what GSP had to say at that point in his life. The man had been a soldier for four decades by the end of WW II - he, like so many of his contemporaries, had seen enough of it.

Best,
Click to expand...

Perhaps like Britains Gen Haig he would champion the US Version of the Legion and dedicate himself to the welfare of Vetrens?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Certainly a possibility; GSP as an early director of

Cryhavoc101 said:
Perhaps like Britains Gen Haig he would champion the US Version of the Legion and dedicate himself to the welfare of Vetrens?
Click to expand...

GSP as one of the early directors of the VA is a possibility.

The idea of GSP as someone only content in uniform is something of a caricature, based largely on the film. He was a man born to wealth, with the interests such a history would suggest, and his father and grandfathers, who were all deeply involved in civic life, suggest any one of a number of paths for him.

Best,
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Interesting ...

Orville_third said:
Here's a letter on Patton going to China, with a bit of a response.
http://marshallfoundation.org/library/digital-archive/to-lieutenant-general-albert-c-wedemeyer/
Click to expand...

Simpson and Truscott were both infantry specialists, and Truscott had mountain and amphibious warfare experience as well. Patton, given his cavalry background, might actually have adapted to the realities of warfare in China, however; somewhat surprised Patch, with his experience against the IJA, isn't specified.

The "present circumstances" are subtly alluded to...;)

Best,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top