Poll- British republican revolution
- Thread starter Bullmoose713
- Start date
Lateknight
Banned
Yes probably no nation is immune to instability and britain could have don't worst that century.
Napoleonrules
Banned
Wrong forum. This belongs in before 1900. Chartists are from the early to mid 1800s. They won't be strong enough post-1900 and there would be little reason for a republican form post-1900.
TinyTartar
Banned
I think it could have happened had the British Government been as stupid as it was arguably during the rule of King James II or during the Hillsborough/Germain/North Ministry, but that doesn't mean it would have succeeded. Remember, the interests of some pissed off Chartists in England does not guarantee that the Empire as a whole will be with them.
Improbable, although not impossible
I do agree with these points, but on balance I think the likely answer is no.
Chartism attracted huge support, with the "monster meetings" in the 1830s and 1840s gathering maybe 100,000 people to each event, but there was a major split between what were known as "moral force" and "physical force" Chartists on aims (ie non-violence vs violence). Physical force were always a minority, never with a clear leader (a major problem for the movement as a whole) and with diffuse support. They were more a figure of fun than of fear in the press - see this image from Punch in 1848
I do agree with these points, but on balance I think the likely answer is no.
Chartism attracted huge support, with the "monster meetings" in the 1830s and 1840s gathering maybe 100,000 people to each event, but there was a major split between what were known as "moral force" and "physical force" Chartists on aims (ie non-violence vs violence). Physical force were always a minority, never with a clear leader (a major problem for the movement as a whole) and with diffuse support. They were more a figure of fun than of fear in the press - see this image from Punch in 1848
If you want a timeline with revolution it is do-able, but you need to overcome both the internal problems of the Chartists AND the adroit handling Peel made of the events as PM. He basically, in offering small reforms over the period, pulled the rug out from under their feet. Maybe have a less capable PM (as others have pointed out) or give the Chartists a government crisis to get people worked up about. Something like an extension of this where the Queen refuses to back down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedchamber_crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedchamber_crisis
How much artillery did the Chartists have? The "full blown rebellion" would have been going up against grapeshot.
See http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/chartism/eventcha.htm General Charles Napier (a decent man who sympathised with the plight of the poor) invited Chartist leaders to a gunnery practice, just as a gentle hint - which they wisely took.
It's not the abilities of the state arms that prevent a revolution, but the actions of the state power in providing a safety valve for discontent amongst the less privileged power groups (in this period, the middle classes). Britain avoided revolution in the long nineteenth century through reform - repeal of the corn laws, great reform act, widening the suffrage. Although reform often didn't go far enough for some, it was always enough to reduce the support of any revolutionary movement and so any violent outbreak would remain as a riot (cf Bristol 1831) rather than escalate.
Therefore, what you need to do is remove some of this safety valve activity - have a wider noble class who seeks to protect their interest through pushing away the middle class rather than co-opting them, perhaps? Although butterflies from that social change may well affect Britains pace of industrialisation amongst other things... With that set up, you can introduce a spark of pretty much any kind to turn tension into violence.
Therefore, what you need to do is remove some of this safety valve activity - have a wider noble class who seeks to protect their interest through pushing away the middle class rather than co-opting them, perhaps? Although butterflies from that social change may well affect Britains pace of industrialisation amongst other things... With that set up, you can introduce a spark of pretty much any kind to turn tension into violence.