Africa in a Central Powers Victory?

ThePest179

Banned
How would Africa look if Germany won World War One? How would Germany treat any colonies they get in the peace process, how much would they take, and would there be a decolonization?

EDIT: Should also clarify that this is a 1918 victory.
 
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Austria probably won't take anything, the Ottoman Empire would probably take Libya, but I doubt the British would be in a position where they were forced to give up Egypt. Germany would probably take some of Frances sub saharan African colonies. How did they win?
 

ThePest179

Banned
How did they win?

1918 Offensive succeeds, no US intervention, and a few small things go in their favor (a worse Easter Rising, heavier Entente casualties in battles like the Somme and Verdun, etc). Really the setting and its plausibility aren't what we're here to discuss, but rather as the title says, what CP landgrabs in Africa would be. I hope I din't sound too rude there. :eek:
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
I say that the Germans get all their own colonies back and get the Belgian Congo and French Equilateral Africa.
 
I say that the Germans get all their own colonies back and get the Belgian Congo and French Equilateral Africa.

This seems most plausible. Or perhaps just Gabon and French Congo from France.

But later colonies probably gets still independence. Decolonisation might happen later than in OTL but it is still unavoidable event.
 
Depending on their mood, the Germans may also want Morocco, but I doubt they'd get it.
 
Rather than argue what Germany hopes to gain in a CP victory this late, I'd actually argue what Germany hopes to retain, considering there's no way in hell they'll ever beat the RN at this point.

At 1918, their best hope to get their African colonies back is to knock France out with a swift Spring Offensive blow right to Paris. Falling short of that, like taking the rail hubs of Amiens and Hazebrouck, would give Germany too less of a hand to argue for their total return. Most of Africa is taken already as it was, and the only German presence left is Lettow-Vorbeck in East Africa. Even then, he's pretty much just trying to survive and poke at the massive British forces hunting him down and occupying Tanganyika. The absolute best they can hope for in negotiation is for part of the coast back. Other than that, fat hope.

That said, if they do knock out France, and the French government surrenders, they can get a chance to retain their colonies, and maybe the Belgian Congo and some French colonies. But if Billy tries to go for British colonies, there's pretty much a guaranteed chance that he would fail. Britain's RN still ruled the waves.
 
Rather than argue what Germany hopes to gain in a CP victory this late, I'd actually argue what Germany hopes to retain, considering there's no way in hell they'll ever beat the RN at this point.

At 1918, their best hope to get their African colonies back is to knock France out with a swift Spring Offensive blow right to Paris. Falling short of that, like taking the rail hubs of Amiens and Hazebrouck, would give Germany too less of a hand to argue for their total return. Most of Africa is taken already as it was, and the only German presence left is Lettow-Vorbeck in East Africa. Even then, he's pretty much just trying to survive and poke at the massive British forces hunting him down and occupying Tanganyika. The absolute best they can hope for in negotiation is for part of the coast back. Other than that, fat hope.

That said, if they do knock out France, and the French government surrenders, they can get a chance to retain their colonies, and maybe the Belgian Congo and some French colonies. But if Billy tries to go for British colonies, there's pretty much a guaranteed chance that he would fail. Britain's RN still ruled the waves.



Maybe knock out France, impose a treaty which allows them to have U-boat bases in French Atlantic ports, and then offer to refrain from building these (or dismantle them after the war) in return for colonial concessions.

Since GB still has superiority at sea, she can occupy the colonies if Germany reneges on the promise.
 

Nocrazy

Banned
Morocco would end up independent. Germany might try to exchange one colony for another, like Cameroon for Algeria, or something.
 
1918 weren't most of them occupied by Britain? Without the ability to defeat the RN, I think they'd be lucky to even get their own back.
 

RavenMM

Banned
1918 weren't most of them occupied by Britain? Without the ability to defeat the RN, I think they'd be lucky to even get their own back.

And the german army is in Belgium and france without any british hope that they will be removed soon... so an exchange has to happen. A free Belgium is a stated british wargoal, what do you think public opinion would be if belgium stays occupied, but the british keeps more colonies in africa?
 
With France and the UK beaten, chances are you'll see a decolonisation process much earlier.

That was of the big drives post-WWII, the coloniser had been beaten, they could bleed.
 
In a 1918 victory, regardless of Germany's position in France and Belgium, I don't think they'll get much of anything. I mean - Togo and East Africa are occupied by Britain; Southwest Africa is occupied by South Africa; Kamerun is occupied by both Britain and France. I think Belgium, even, occupied parts of East Africa (Rwanda-Urundi of course, but I think they were further into the centre as well).

So what if Germany has control over the Belgian and French governments? They can, what, get them to issue the order to release Kamerun and part of East Africa. Britain then moves in and takes the rest. They've got German oceanic trade and the colonies as hostages, and remember in Versailles South Africa was considered its own party (meaning Britain couldn't very well just tell them to give back Southwest Africa).

You might see the return of some colonies in exchange for the independence of France and Belgium. I think Germany having a free hand in the east is a given, considering the collapse of Russia, but what's the most they can hope for? Britain still wants their (theoretical) Cape-Cairo link, so East Africa will remain in British hands. South Africa always saw Southwest Africa as a natural part of their country and their own little colony, so I don't see them giving it up. Togoland was the only profitable German colony, and it was small, so maybe that's what they get back in Africa.

I don't see Britain giving them everything, and I don't see them allowing the Germans to annex swathes of French Africa either.

The powers of WWI were more evenly matched than people like to admit, I think. At a stretch, I'd say a return to the status quo ante bellum could happen, meaning German Africa will return to its pre-war state, but so would the rest of Europe (excepting of course the east). Independent Belgium would return, independent France as well, and the Germans would have proven themselves a force to be reckoned with but obviously unable to defeat the RN.
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
Donor
The fact that your colonies are occupied is generally irrelevant to whether you keep them, especially if you win the war. You win, you get your toys returned and teacher apologises for having confiscated them. You then get to beat up the weak kid and steal some of his toys as well.

Best regards
Grey Wolf
 
And the german army is in Belgium and france without any british hope that they will be removed soon... so an exchange has to happen. A free Belgium is a stated british wargoal, what do you think public opinion would be if belgium stays occupied, but the british keeps more colonies in africa?

I dont think they'd care about Belgium at that point. It'd be about saving face.
 
The fact that your colonies are occupied is generally irrelevant to whether you keep them, especially if you win the war. You win, you get your toys returned and teacher apologises for having confiscated them. You then get to beat up the weak kid and steal some of his toys as well.

Best regards
Grey Wolf

Of course, if the kid demands any of that, the teacher would probably call in the principal... Best thing to do in this situation is plead, but be prepared to lose your toys. :p
 
It depends on the degree of German victory in the West. If it's a Germans take (and hold) Hazebrouck and Amiens favorable negotiated settlement the Germans get to annex Luxembourg, Briey and Longwy and force the Entente to recognize Brest-Litovsk but in Africa lose everything but East Afrika (if they are really lucky maybe Belgium returns Rwanda as well)

If it's a Germans take (and hold) Paris scenario (not ASB but extremely unlikely) then I would see Mittelafrika being created incorporating the Belgian Congo and some French colonies. A tiny German Morocco might be created at Agadir with the rest of Morocco granted complete independence. Even in this scenario return of SW Africa in its entirety is iffy.
 
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