WI: Kosovo granted republic status?
- Thread starter Dorozhand
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You'd still need to avoid the speeding bullet named Milosevic and his brand of virulent Serbian nationalism which places Kosovo, paradoxically the site of the worst Serb defeat in early modern history, as one of the holiest sites for Serbian ultranationalism. Kosovo being an autonomous republic would probably become yet another grievance on his part.
Alex Richards
Donor
Though it would make it a lot harder for him. OTL he could send in the police with some degree of legality into Vojvodina and Kosovo as they were autonomous parts of Serbia, which combined with puppetising Montenegro gave him half the votes on the federal council and thus gridlocked the system. TTL Kosovo would be much more likely to remain independent of Milosevic's influence, meaning that he'd have a 5-3 majority against him if he starts trying to pull some of that stuff.
Perhaps he'd focus on Bosnia first.
Alex Richards
Donor
I thought the situation was that Tito wanted to break up Serbia, but was also trying to bring Albania in to Yugoslavia, so wanted to be able to transfer Kosovo easily as something to offer Tirana?
Why it would be ASB? Perhaps difficult but impossible?
But with Republic of Kosovo breaking of Yugoslavia might be even messier than in OTL. Yugoslavia was doomed anyway on Tito's last years.
abc123
Banned
Impossible.
Tito was a dictator, but not omnipotent. If he tried to make Kosovo a republic the uproar that measure would cause among the Serbs is something unbelievable... They only barely accepted authonomy for Kosovo in 1974 and as in 1978 or 1979 started working against that, than the whole thing was peaceful while Tito was alive, and the moment he died they started pushing for limiting their authonomy...
besides, YugoSlavia was, as the name said, country of ( volontary united states, at least in theory ) of South Slavs, and Albanians are not South Slavs, so, they can't have their own state in Yugoslavia.
abc123
Banned
In that case Kosovo would be a part of republic of Albania, not separate republic.
And that was more Tito's wet dream than real possibility anyway...
In 1981? It would have just made things worse...now, if Kosovo was made a Socialist Republic (or a People's Republic, as the federal units were called at first) immediately in 1945, the backlash wouldn't have been as great, if for no other reason then because the communist regime is a lot more capable of silencing and disappearing vocal protesters in 1945 than in 1981.
Still, though it would have been a more honest and straightforward decision than the communists OTL handling of Kosovo, it would have carried huge problems of its own.
Is it just me or is the fall of socialist states in Europe leading to ethnic bloodshed (Chechnya not being an SSR in the Soviet Union, for instance) the white version of decolonization troubles
Dorozhand
Banned
Not really. The ethnic troubles after the fall of the USSR were mainly the result of Soviet policies against petty nationalism in favor of class consciousness. Nationalist sentiment built up like a pressure vessel, aided by the failures of post-war Soviet style economic policy as well as the repression of culture, and exploded first with Perestroika, again with the '89 revolutions, and yet again in '91.
Decolonization troubles were due not to policies of internationalism, but to the divide and conquer policies of colonial overlords and the artificial borders and broken societies this created.
Mookie
Banned
Umm where did you hear that?
He wanted to give more power to Serbia, which is why he created autonomous republics, to give Serbs more votes. Majority of officers were Serbs and almost all heavy weapons were in Serb hands or stored in Serb towns. If thats breaking up tell me whats strenghtening
Angel Heart
Banned
Giving Kosovo republic status is possible but unlikely as abc123 (seriously whenever I read your username my mental jukebox plays this Jackson 5 song 
) was kind enough to point out. But for argument's sake let's say Tito somehow did it after the Serb elite had a collective stroke.
First of all keep in mind that Milošević didn't create the situation, but the situation created him. Long before Sloba was even born Kosovo was the subject of Serbo-Albanian conflict and butthurt. If it wasn't for him it would have been for someone else.
IOTL, especially since the early 1980s, local Serbs claimed how they were facing violence, intimidation, oppression by Albanians and were forced to flee. Since Kosovo was back then, at least de jure, part of SR Serbia, the local Serbs were outraged why she didn't do anything to improve the situation for the Serbs which can be summarized as following:
KOSOVO SERBS: We're being brutalized by the Albanians, why aren't you lazy fucks in Belgrade doing anything?!
We're your citizens! Your people! A man already got a bottle in his ass for fuck's sake!
SR SERBIA: Oh you drama queens and your shitthatdidnthappen.txt Brotherhood and Unity! Ave Caesar! Sieg Heil Tito!
In an ATL: How the inevitable secession of Kosovo would turn out depends on multiple factors. If it happens before the wars in Slovenia and Croatia (especially before Franjo wins the elections in Croatia) the entire renegade republic could face a full scale invasion by the JNA. If Sloba is in charge the timing would be irrelevant as his entire career was build on exploiting Kosovo and losing it would instantly delegitimize him in the eyes of the people. Someone else instead of him may try to do something more or less what we currently have in Ukraine. It may even end in an agreement between Serbia and Albania to carve it up, more or less what IOTL Serbia and Croatia had in mind with Bosnia, but only without a war.
) was kind enough to point out. But for argument's sake let's say Tito somehow did it after the Serb elite had a collective stroke.First of all keep in mind that Milošević didn't create the situation, but the situation created him. Long before Sloba was even born Kosovo was the subject of Serbo-Albanian conflict and butthurt. If it wasn't for him it would have been for someone else.
IOTL, especially since the early 1980s, local Serbs claimed how they were facing violence, intimidation, oppression by Albanians and were forced to flee. Since Kosovo was back then, at least de jure, part of SR Serbia, the local Serbs were outraged why she didn't do anything to improve the situation for the Serbs which can be summarized as following:
KOSOVO SERBS: We're being brutalized by the Albanians, why aren't you lazy fucks in Belgrade doing anything?!
SR SERBIA: Oh you drama queens and your shitthatdidnthappen.txt
Brotherhood and Unity! Ave Caesar! Sieg Heil Tito!
In an ATL: How the inevitable secession of Kosovo would turn out depends on multiple factors. If it happens before the wars in Slovenia and Croatia (especially before Franjo wins the elections in Croatia) the entire renegade republic could face a full scale invasion by the JNA. If Sloba is in charge the timing would be irrelevant as his entire career was build on exploiting Kosovo and losing it would instantly delegitimize him in the eyes of the people. Someone else instead of him may try to do something more or less what we currently have in Ukraine. It may even end in an agreement between Serbia and Albania to carve it up, more or less what IOTL Serbia and Croatia had in mind with Bosnia, but only without a war.
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Mookie
Banned
Giving Kosovo republic status is possible but unlikely as abc123 (seriously whenever I read your username my mental jukebox plays this Jackson 5 song
First of all keep in mind that Milošević didn't create the situation, but the situation created him. Long before Sloba was even born Kosovo was the subject of Serbo-Albanian conflict and butthurt. If it wasn't for him it would have been for someone else.
IOTL, especially since the early 1980s, local Serbs claimed how they were facing violence, intimidation, oppression by Albanians and were forced to flee. Since Kosovo was back then, at least de jure, part of SR Serbia, the local Serbs were outraged why she didn't do anything to improve the situation for the Serbs which can be summarized as following:
KOSOVO SERBS: We're being brutalized by the Albanians, why aren't you lazy fucks in Belgrade doing anything?!We're your citizens! Your people! A man already got a bottle in his ass for fuck's sake!
SR SERBIA: Oh you drama queens and your shitthatdidnthappen.txt
In an ATL: How the inevitable secession of Kosovo would turn out depends on multiple factors. If it happens before the wars in Slovenia and Croatia (especially before Franjo wins the elections in Croatia) the entire renegade republic could face a full scale invasion by the JNA. If Sloba is in charge the timing would be irrelevant as his entire career was build on exploiting Kosovo and losing it would instantly delegitimize him in the eyes of the people. Someone else instead of him may try to do something more or less what we currently have in Ukraine. It may even end in an agreement between Serbia and Albania to carve it up, more or less what IOTL Serbia and Croatia had in mind with Bosnia, but only without a war.
The bottle in the ass was that mans own doing. And Milosevic used that along with other things for fear mongering and political gains. Saying that a situation made him is silly. He made the situation and used it. He could have just as easily used the investigation results and show everyone that the man used the bottle for masturbation and that it broke inside his ass and was too ashamed to admit what he was doing (since he needed medical help) and lied about Albanians doing it
As for Bosnia that was impossible and we all know that
Alex Richards
Donor
That was kind of what I was getting at, much easier to transfer an already existing autonomous republic to the rule of Tirana than to carve up Serbian land wholecloth.
Well, apart from the fact that Kosovo, being inhabited by Albanians in the majority, certainly wasn't just acting as an extra vote for Serbia until Milosevic stuck his henchmen in. You may have a case for Vojvodina on this, but considering half the point of Tito's system was to prevent Yugoslavia from just becoming 'Greater Serbia' it would seem oddly counterproductive to then give Serbia more votes- 1 short of a deadlock-inducing plurality as we saw OTL.
abc123
Banned
The bottle in the ass was that mans own doing. And Milosevic used that along with other things for fear mongering and political gains. Saying that a situation made him is silly. He made the situation and used it. He could have just as easily used the investigation results and show everyone that the man used the bottle for masturbation and that it broke inside his ass and was too ashamed to admit what he was doing (since he needed medical help) and lied about Albanians doing it
As for Bosnia that was impossible and we all know that
But trouble is, nobody in Serbia would believe that he did all that to him self...
Hitler accused Jews because he KNEW that large number of Germans hate's Jews and that his accusations will pass easily. He didn't accused Austrians or Danes, but Jews. Same thing with Milošević, he said what majority of Serbs allready believed, because they were ready to believe that a Albanian savage was ready to do any horrible thing to anyone and especially to Serbs...
Mookie
Banned
Then give Autonomous republics no vote. Idea that Autonomous Kosovo was created to protect Albanians has no base in reality, looking at how they were treated there and opressed for 50 years.
3 votes to Serbia + 1 in Montenegro = 4
Bosnia, Slovenia, Croatia and Macedonia = 4
Meaning that if Serbia doesnt want something passed it wont pass. But it can pass from their side as long as they win someone over
Ultimate Paragon
Banned
Exactly. It's a textbook example of playing to prejudices.But trouble is, nobody in Serbia would believe that he did all that to him self...
Hitler accused Jews because he KNEW that large number of Germans hate's Jews and that his accusations will pass easily. He didn't accused Austrians or Danes, but Jews. Same thing with Milošević, he said what majority of Serbs allready believed, because they were ready to believe that a Albanian savage was ready to do any horrible thing to anyone and especially to Serbs...
abc123
Banned
Trouble is, for Serbian nationalists Albania is also a "serbian land" ( Epirus from Dušan's Empire time ).
So, even for those that are not nationalists, giving KOSOVO ( of all places ) would be arch-treason of Serbia.
With Albania in Yugoslavia or without them... After all, if you let Albania in Yugoslavia, than Serbs will have less say in Yugoslavia...
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