Leon Bonaparteovich
- Thread starter Byzantion
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So delaying the French Revolution by a month or two would mean that Nappy is secure in HRE territory and can continue traveling to St. Petersburg. Also I'd be interested to see where this goes but sadly I can't contribute anything to this discussion because I know very little about Russian military structures.
Yes. For example, the Russian navy's fleet in the Black Sea had both Britons and Americans (the latter including John Paul Jones) amongst its officers.
Son of Leman Russ
Banned
And in the future, Russian Empire under Emperor Leon Bonaparteovich invades France? 
And in the future, Russian Empire under Emperor Leon Bonaparteovich invades France?
There would be no French Winter to stop him
There would be no French Winter to stop him
Mmm, now that could be interesting, turning Bonaparte into the hero of the reactionary armies by crushing the French during the First or Second Coalitions, restoring the monarchy and all in short order so that Republicanism (in Europe at least) is basically a blip on the radar.
Your assuming that Napoleon would be placed in a position of power. He was an untitled, poor man from Corsica. I can't see the Russians promoting him that high.
Well, that's true, but as a foreigner with a certain intuitive grasp of command, he gets a dispatch mention or two as a battery commander, soon finds himself running a division, and perhaps in due time a corp or two. Or at the worst case in this sort of situation, after being mentioned, he finds himself a staff officer where his advice/insights are the key, even if he never does get to command, he becomes that phantom force, that adviser that ensures that everything 'goes right' for the Russian forces.
I was sure I've heard of that story once before, so I googled it; and here's basically what happened:
Napoleon, apparently, did apply to the Russian army, sometime in early 1789 (so a bit before the Revolution).
He was of a relatively low rank then (naturally), and wanted to get at least the same rank in the Russian army.
However, around the same time as his application, there was an order from Catherine II saying (in effect) that the Russian army has enough foreigners in it already, and any further ones will be at least one rank lower (than they were in their original army).
The order arrived to the army headquarters several days before the application; so Napoleon was turned down with words to the effect that, um, sorry, the order. The rest is history.
(He applied again in 1792, apparently; that was also turned down, and might have been affected by the Revolution. I'm slightly more hazy on that part of the story.)
The POD is then obvious: have that order arrive (and/or be issued) a week or two later. It's actually a pretty clean POD - not much will really change by this little difference except for the Napoleon story.
Napoleon, apparently, did apply to the Russian army, sometime in early 1789 (so a bit before the Revolution).
He was of a relatively low rank then (naturally), and wanted to get at least the same rank in the Russian army.
However, around the same time as his application, there was an order from Catherine II saying (in effect) that the Russian army has enough foreigners in it already, and any further ones will be at least one rank lower (than they were in their original army).
The order arrived to the army headquarters several days before the application; so Napoleon was turned down with words to the effect that, um, sorry, the order. The rest is history.
(He applied again in 1792, apparently; that was also turned down, and might have been affected by the Revolution. I'm slightly more hazy on that part of the story.)
The POD is then obvious: have that order arrive (and/or be issued) a week or two later. It's actually a pretty clean POD - not much will really change by this little difference except for the Napoleon story.
Except isn't Napoleon the person who invited the idea of a the division, or utilized if heavily? The whole "let's make a combined arms unit containing all elements organically" was largely an invention of the wars of the French Revolution. Thus, does he even get a chance to get out of artillery if the's not in France?
I use the term Division in a general sense of being a collection of Brigades, whether of a single or several types...not so much in the combined-arms sense pioneered by Napoleon.
Silly question, but how would an officer in a foreign armies loyalty be tested when/if his homeland ever went to war with his current employer? was there like a times of grace for him to leave or did blood so to speak come before wine? I remember reading about Confederate born sons being stationed in northern states at the state of the civil war and the decisions they had to make. Didn't West Point even let its Southern Cadets march off with drums and flags flying- a privilege I somehow doubt would have been granted to the rankers and enlisted men?
It happened lots of times before then. Eugene of Savoy was French; his mother was a childhood friend of Louis XIV. Eugene applied for a commission in the French Army, but Louis (now estranged from his mother) turned him down, so he went to Austria.
National sentiment really wasn't all that strong before the 1800s.
I think Napoleon's career pre-Toulon was basically one in which he was angling for a chance to prove himself as a commander. Napoleon as a person who had to take orders was quite unsatisfactory - David Chandler's account calculates that Napoleon spent around half his time on leave of some sort while he was a lowly artillery officer. Napoleon in the Russian army - where having the connections was sort of important in going up and where they already had good commanders in the form of Suvurov and Kutuzov - would probably have realized that he was going to be stuck in his position for quite some time and would have been appropriately lazy. Certainly nobody would remember him today if he actually went to Russia. Or his ambition would lead him back to France the moment Revolution broke out.
The better option is for him to move in 1795 after the 'degrading' decision to transfer him from Italy to suppression duties in the Vendee. By that time Napoleon had already had some fame and so he could expect better treatment. I don't think Russia would accept a revolutionary in their midsts by that time, though; Constantinople seems like the more reasonable decision.
The better option is for him to move in 1795 after the 'degrading' decision to transfer him from Italy to suppression duties in the Vendee. By that time Napoleon had already had some fame and so he could expect better treatment. I don't think Russia would accept a revolutionary in their midsts by that time, though; Constantinople seems like the more reasonable decision.
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